Player ejection and coach response
 

Yesterday I had a game between two rival schools that was also a district game. Sparing long details, I had a player for team A that upon striking out (swinging) turn to me and smart off before returning to the dugout. I ejected the player and as expected here comes the head coach of team A. He was rather upset that his player got ejected and mouthed off for about a minute but never crossed the line.

So here is where my true question starts. Since this was a district game between two rivals almost every media outlet was present. Upon opening up todays paper there is an article from the game. It mentions the ejection and within the coaches interview part of the article the coach states "that the umpire admitted he was wrong and even apologized. Usually they do not but he did. When you have a freshman that is passionate about baseball and he has a call that does not go his way of course he is going to get a bit upset."

My state has a rather strict rule on coaches commenting on umpire judgement calls to media outlets. I have the ability to send a report to the state association disputing what the coach said and reporting his comments to the paper or I can just let it go.

So what does everyone think should happen now. Also if anyone wants more information on how we led up to an ejection and how the conversation with the coach afterwards went I can go further into details. Thanks

Did you admit you were wrong and apologize? If you didn't and he fabricated this, then I would be very careful what I said to this guy going forward. If you did apologize, did you think he would just let it go? My philosophy with regards to what I say to a coach is very simple, 'they can't use what you DON'T say against you'.

Now, about this situation. I would ignore it and if the state wants to get involved, then they will. You will see this coach again, no doubt.

If you didn't apologize you shouldn't be posting on a message board. You should be consulting with an attorney.

I did not apologize. Honestly, the coach did most of the talking/complaining and did not really give me a chance to even explain anything to him.

Are you thinking he should pursue a libel suit?

Just like you wouldn't let the first couple of balks go by, I wouldn't let the first couple of media comments fly if you have a rule in place that covers them.

I'm not sure what exactly you should write up about it other than the fact that comments were made. The incorrect nature of the comments is certainly an issue, but I'm not sure I'd make them the issue.

I would. Libel is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual...a negative or inferior image.

This was clearly the case. It certainly appears his intent was to plant a seed in any coaches who read that and doesn't know Tank that he is a substandard umpire.

Hold off on the lawsuit for now. File a report as not only was the comment about the umpiring, but it was not true when talking to the media. I would file the report and talk to the supervisor or assignor about this and let them do what they do. Only file a lawsuit if you are harmed and it is not clear that is the case right now. It is too soon. Not everything a coach says is taken seriously for a lot of reasons, even by their own administration. Do your due diligence first and then if something is resolved then maybe then consider something, but that would be the absolute last resort. You do not want to be seen as the guy that sued over what happen on the field and then lose that fight.

Peace

consider other ramifications
 

I would consult with your chapter prez and other members who's opinion you respect before taking the official reporting step. There may be circumstances that you do not know that would lead you to file or not to file. If everything was as you say it was and you find no good reason not to file, I'd file it and let him explain his media comments to the authorities.

I could care less if I'm going to see this coach again. If he patently lied to the media claiming that I said something that I never said, I'm not ignoring it. Something has to be done to put this yayhoo on notice that he can't go to the media and make crap up to make me look bad.

You can get into a 'he said, she said' argument, the coach can claim what he wants, interpret what was said any way that suits his fancy. The fact that he went to the media just tells me that putting him 'on notice' won't do any good. His value system won't be altered.

In my opinion, there is no 'win' in this situation. I would agree with letting your association handle the matter as they see fit.

Forget the lawsuit and find a way to dump his *** every time you see him again.

+1

Did you do your job and act in a professional manner at all times?

That is what is important. I know in my state if an ejection took place we are required to file a report within 48 hours. You are to state exactly what took place, what rule was in violation and the penalty assessed. Report all pertinent conversations and STICK to the facts PERIOD. They alone should be sufficient enough for one to discern what was actually said.

This is America, the coach has every right to speak to whoever he feels like and don't ever take a game with his team again if you don't think you can be totally impartial, fair or professional or are going to hold a grudge against this coach. If that is the case you are doing a great disservice to yourself and the umpiring profession.

If you do you job by the book, then you should not blink an eye about what was said unless it causes you to lose games and/or financial damages. Then handle it professionally with a lawyer.

I would have a conversation about this with my assignor and ask for his advice on next steps. I expect he would ask me for a report and he would take it from there and coach/school would be fined in our state.

And I would forget about it.

The coach did not do his job by the book if there is a state rule about not addressing officiating in the media.

There are rules in most professional sports about the same thing, and they do get fined for it. Most of the time coaches/players even know it, saying "I know I'll get fined for this, but that call was bad, blah blah blah." The next day, so-and-so comes out as being fined $10K. Sure, it's pocket change to most, but the rule is there, and the rule is enforced.

Letting this slide isn't good if you as me. Just like the guy who lets certain balks by until you come around, the next person to be talked about in the media faces an uphill battle when the words are even more harsh. They'll come back with, "no one said anything before so they must not care," and then it's open season when they can't control it.

At the very least, I would tell your assignor and/or your association if you don't want to report it yourself. Maybe they'll work up the stack and get the complaint lodged.

Your point is?

"I know in my state if an ejection took place we are required to file a report within 48 hours. You are to state exactly what took place, what rule was in violation and the penalty assessed. Report all pertinent conversations and STICK to the facts PERIOD. That alone should be sufficient enough for one to discern what was actually said."

How is suggesting a full detailed report letting it slide?

So my association president gave me a call this evening. He was entirely supporting of my ejection and stated that the offending coach had given him a call discussing the game. The coach told my assignor that he was sorry for the remarks in the paper and that he got a little carried away and that the paper took a few things out of context also. Supposedly their conversation ended with him saying that there were no hard feelings and that he would not mind me back at his location.

My association president feels as if we should not pursue anything additional at this point. He feels as if the state has an issue with anything that they will contact me directly asking for clarification. One part of me thinks that burying this is the best, yet another part of me says that if he gets away with it what will stop him from doing it in the future. I guess I will let things go for now and just continue umpiring.

I wonder if coach called your assigner before or after he saw his words in the newspaper.

This kind of call is so much harder than the ones we make on the field. You have a coach that says that he got "a little carried away" and that he was misquoted and you're welcome to come back anytime (probably only if this is far as the issue goes). And an assigner that's on your side, but really hopes you let it lie (that part about the state contacting you if they have an issue is BS, I doubt the state will even hear about this incident if no one files a report). And then you have all us internet umpires (not in your shoes) telling you what you should do.

Sometimes when I F-up a call, I lose sleep over it. Don't let an A-hole like this cause you to lose sleep. Use your best judgement and then let it go. Good luck, bruda.

The coach reached out out of fear. Fear you'd have his next game, and word would get out that he lied to the press. Afraid you'd let on to the rest of the umpires what a rat he was, and all close calls would go against him (that's how coaches think).

He's a bonehead. No rational person makes up stuff like that up (I'm guessing his team lost, and blames you). Now he tries a little CYA with your boss, figuring that might help him out. A little Jim Joyce-ish weeping, or a sorrowful attempt to smooth things over. Dope. Lying is not "a little carried away".

At least he saved you the trouble of making a second report.

All that said, when you encounter him the next time, don't bring it up, or even acknowledge the event. No tearfilled plate meetings or hugs, either. Just a new game, played by kids, where the adults are the example setters.

Plus, acting like it never happened will freak him out even more.

As for filing a lawsuit, that's nuts. Please, we're above stuff like that, aren't we? Handle your own business.

Here's a twist that might (probably not) work. Do it golf style. Ask him if he'd like to file the report on myself (saving you the risk/reward of filing the report). Have it explained to him (by an intermediary/your assignor) that maybe it'll go down easier if he reports it himself. If he is sincere about his apology, then he should be willing to take you off the hook by reporting it himself. It would be the honorable thing to do.

Maybe if you heard his response to this suggestion, you could make a better decision on whether or not to file the report.

File the report with your state office. If the coach repeats this violation or causes other problems down the road, they'll have a record of his previous actions.

File the report w/ the league.

That's the process. I know it's easy for me to say on here...but documenting this behavior is important for umpires who work after you.

You are an independent contractor. Your assigner can tell you one thing, but in our state, we have a process for this issues. He can call the assigner, whatever else he wishes, but you still have the right to file an incident report.

If your gut instinct tells you to let it go, then let it go.

Not sure how long you've been officiating, but this type of stuff will always happened the longer you officiate. So you do need to pick your battles.

If coach and assignor have spoken, I'm not sure you have further to go with this. There's no libel here - you have to PROVE you did not say what he said you said... and I'm sure you had no witnesses in earshot of that conversation. At this point, let it go and move on.

tankmjg24,

From your profile I see you work in W.Va. With a little internet research I see there is an officials Manual that states the following:

3.8. Procedure. Unsportsmanship action must be reported in detail to the WVSSAC. A copy of the complaint must also be filed with the
principal of the school involved. Each principal involved shall report such information or answers to the report as they deem appropriate. Upon
receipt of all reports, the Executive Director and/or the Board of Directors of the WVSSAC shall investigate and adjudicate such reports in accordance
with the powers afforded in §127-1-8.6 and 8.7 and §127-1-12.2 and 12.3 of the Constitution. Penalties up to and including suspension of member
schools may be made in accordance with §127-4.

If I am correct , it looks like you are required to file a report. If so I would fully recommend complying.

So if you f-up a call you lose sleep but if a coach does he's still an a-hole?

Want to think that through a bit more?

I'm sure the coaches who are on the wrong end of my f'd-up calls think I'm an a-hole.

So just think that coach just made a bad call. Nah, he fabricated a bad call. If you can't distinguish between an umpire making an honest boot of a call and a coach dishonestly lying about what someone said, then you must be...a coach.

Upon further thinking about it, I change my mind, I think he's rat-bastid a-hole. And not worth losing a wink of sleep about.

You sure would be, if you went to the press and lied about a conversation the two of you had about the call.

Reporters are not entirely accurate either
 

There's a fair amount of room for misinterpretation between what you remember saying, how the coach heard it, what the coach told the reporter, what the reporter heard, and what the reporter wrote. Plus what the coach told your assignor. I would communicate with both the coach and the reporter before assuming that the coach lied through his teeth. If I cared enough, which I probably wouldn't.

Why would you talk to the coach? That has all kinds of mindfields if the conversation does not go a certain way. And if you say something and he lied before, what makes you think that conversation would not be misrepresented and said to benefit the coach's position?

Peace

Don't talk to the coach about his press interview. Nothing good can come of it.

He's the dope. Your assignor knows all about. Be Calm, and Carry On.

Perfect!

You didn't get it. Figures.

It was about losing sleep agonizing over a call.

You think coaches don't agonize over their decisions that went south?

You don't get 10% of the grief coaches get. The get it, depending on their level, from some combination of players, parents, league officials, school officials, the press, the TV talking heads, their barber, the convenience store clerk when they go in to buy their beer to cry in, and Billy's Grandmother. Coaches get fired for making too many bad decisions - you just move on to your next game.

Then they see in the news that a supervisor of officials put a bounty on a coach - "in jest" he said - and didn't even get a wrist slap. Dash posts that you should find a way to dump the coach in the OP every time and Ozzy agrees. Vendetta time? Wonderful!

And you think the coach is the one who is out of line?

oh, was that what we were talking about? poor misunderstood coaches. :confused: Though, that was a fairly respectable rant.

Yeah Rich, I agree with Dash. The coach ran his mouth to the press and lied (as far as we know). We really can't do anything about the press so when we see him again, he has no leash at all. He goes on the first problem. When he questions, I have no problem telling him the next time he speaks to the press, speak for yourself and no one else. Remember, Rich, no one ever speaks for us (umpires). Coaches get to spew their diarrhea and the press loves it. We have no input so when coaches want to be jerks, they will be spectators for a while. Maybe they will learn their lesson.

The thing that annoys me with this entire situation is the fact that the player did something he should not have. In my judgement it was directed to me in an act of trying to show me up and warranted an ejection. Instead of looking at the issue of the player doing something inappropriate and fussing at him, I am portrayed as the bad guy in the overall picture. The player messed up and will now have to pay the consequences as far as I am concerned. Do not make excuses for him or try to blame others, he made a decision and will now have to live with it and he should have to pay the consequences and realize he did something he should not have. Instead though, it will probably be portrayed as "the mean umpire was wrong and you did nothing wrong. " What does the player learn from that?

In regards to the coach's comments, as you all know already my assignor is aware of what occurred. He tells me that the state was put on notice and he feels as if nothing else needs to be done on my end. If there is an issue with anything the state will contact me directly. I feel as if it is best to probably just move on and not make it into a huge issue unless it occurs again. At least currently people are aware of what occurred.

Jicecone - the report that is mandatory is for an ejection. You have 24hrs to submit this report or the state sees it as never occurring and you as an official get in trouble. You have the option of reporting cases of unsportsmanlike conduct (which this would be considered), cases of good sportsmanship, etc. These secondary reports are optional on the end of the official.

Yes. Yes, he is.

While your "man the ramparts" speech here is just terrific, it's also about 98% irrelevant. And the Pac-10 reference is the worst part of the irrelevant. Different sport, different level, just .... different.

FFS, Rich - you're on an officials board. Like you ALWAYS are. And yet you're shocked - shocked! I say - when the opinion runs against coaches. Like you ALWAYS are.

Since you want to point out the differences between coaches and officials, let's point out one that's relevant to the OP: officials usually are restricted from media access, while coaches are not. So they can talk to anyone that will listen about what the umpire "said." And it will be reported as fact, even when it's usually not. (And any retraction will end up in 6-pt font on page C-4 a week later.)

In short: waaah.

(And for those that want to cut the coach a break by saying that a reporter hears what (s)he wants: if the OP is correct, the coach was quoted. To me, that keeps the coach more on the hook, since quotes generally mean that's EXACTLY what he said.)

Hmmmm....I think it's time for BACONNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!

I understand that frustration. Once I EJ'd a player for showing me up as you had. Coach came out at me, demanding to know what he said (and I could tell he was looking for something to use on me, not his player). First I tried to be vague. "He was arguing balls/strikes and did so in disrespectful manner". That didn't work. Next, "Coach, I'll tell you exactly what he said, but I'll take a dim view of any response that condones his behavior". Then I told him and then I listened. I don't recall EJ'g the coach (would probably remember if I did). If he says anything that indicates that I over-reacted, then he gets to sit in the dugout the rest of the game, or maybe the parking lot.