Mechanics Question
 

I have a difference of opinion with a fellow umpire that maybe you guys can help with.

We were working a college scrimmage today and had the following play.

Runner on 2B. The batter hits a ground ball to left field. The runner from 2B rounds 3rd and heads for home. The left fielder throws it to the 3rd baseman, who has moved toward the outfield grass, who then throws to home. There's a close sliding play at home.

The question is where should U1 have been positioned to make the call?

Assuming U1 means the plate umpire, he should be at the point of the plate to read the throw home and adjust accordingly. Usually, the place to be is the 3rd base line extended.

The PU also has R2's touch of 3rd base.

I agree if your talking about the PU, then 3BX is a good starting point.

Third base line extended no matter who is making the call. Get a CCA Manual. Read it.

JJ

You guys were working a college scrimmage and this was a point of contention?

+1

Was this 2 umpires I assume?

You never know...
 

Maybe he has read it but his partner hasn't. I've had that kind of partner. The one who knows all about positioning but hasn't attended any training or read any manual.

I wouldn't be surprised if his partner really thought U1 should be making the call at home. I've had that kind of partner. :eek:

Rita

I agree with dash that you start off at the point and read/adjust from there. The OP seems to suggest that 3BLX was the place to be on this close sliding play. But some who have "seen the light" of the benefit of 3BLX think that 3BLX is the only place to be on a batted ball/play at HP. If the throw is there in plenty of time and it become a question of what happened first (tag or touch) then 1BLX is sometimes the place to be.

Rita, I'm fairly confident that the OP meant the plate umpire by 'U1', with R2 and a safe single to left. Some mechanics manuals (FED for instance) use that designation.

But, for the record, I've had the same partner — the one who thought the base umpire should make the call at home. One guy thought he should take it from the mound...

Thank you all
 

My partner, the plate umpire, had just completed a high school clinic (this is his 2nd year working high school ball). He had wanted to come out to a scrimmage to get some experience so we let him. It is very informal so he couldn't screw things up..too bad.

He took the play at home positioned 1BX as described. After the inning I tried to explain where he should have been....He did not believe me. He said that he was just taught the previous weekend to do it the way he did. So I posted the question to the group here.

He will be reading your responses.

I meant PU when I said U1.... another "old guy" moment...they are coming more often these days!

Thank you all

We call that the [insert name of local newspaper] position. You are in great position to be in the photo on the high school sports page, but the worst position to see the play at the plate.

Have him c/o the umpire in 1BLX in this SB play. It's SB but its the same issue (bad positioning).

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/high-scho...151479335.html

Edit: Link Fixed

Bad link?

Buy him a CCA manual for his birthday. And a FED manual. Clinics are great as far as they go, but they should be demonstrating the mechanics found in these manuals.

JJ

He was on the 3rd base side...did you mean he SHOULD have been on 1B side?

Softball: who knows?

Baseball: dash already provided the best mechanic, namely start at POP and adjust, which usually takes you to 3BLX.

U1 should be near 2nd base prepared to make a call on the batter.

My bad - I assumed the OP meant what he said. Your assumption makes more sense.

I echo the "you were at a college scrimmage and this was a point of contention" question, as this is extremely straightforward.

Does PU have R2's touch in 3-man? (I agree in 2-man, but college scrimmage, I'm thinking it's 3, and doesn't U3 have that touch?)

He said he was at 1BLX. He meant he was at 1BLX... because the umpire WAS at 1BLX. What exactly are you "correcting" here?

PU has R2's touch of 3d with 2 outs or anytime U1 or U3 goes out. Otherwise, R3 has it.

Maybe scrimmage was the wrong word to use, it was an intra-squad scrimmage (red vs blue), working on different situations and letting all of the pitchers get some work. It's good work for the umpires too, most only work FED, JUCO or D3 ball. Only 2 of us showed up. We try to have 3 umpires out there and sometimes 4 but not that day.

Ignore...mis-read

xtreamump
 

Start at POP and move, on line throw 1BLX, possible off line throw 3BLX and if needed move around to the infield area. Works every Time BB & SB.

1BLX is pretty much going the way of the Dodo bird. You can get the same look by staying on F2's left hip and letting him dictate your positioning.

If you have an on line throw, with the runner out by 3 feet, F1 standing just in front of the dish, Where does the DODO Bird make his observation & call from ????

Point of the plate.

Most runners, even if out by three feet, are going to hook slide and you'll get a swipe tag. That or they will give themselves up. At amateur levels, they aren't usually going to crash the catcher, so you're not going to have a collision play requiring you to go 1BLX.

Start at point of the plate. Read play and adjust. They also now teach if you read a swipe to stay on the catchers hip. Also called "watch the wallet".

xtreamump
 

+1 you me and the dodo bird

Ball in F2 mitt in plenty of time, runner is going straight in, getting a foot through to the plate while a tag is being applied, you can't see which happen first in 3BLX (you can't even see the tag, your view is blocked by F2). Best view here would be 1BLX.

I've met umpires that only used 1BLX, then learned the benefit of 3BLX and now think that 3BLX is the only place to be. You can't just scrap 1BLX. Start at POP, read, and move.

Except that you take one read step from 3BLX and it all opens up.

If one step is going to fix the situation that I described, then you are either way to close to HP (should be at/near the cutout) or you have a very large step.

I'm not sure you can see that in 1BX either because the tag is applied <-here while the foot is -> there.

If the tag is on the foot, you can see it in either spot.

It is not uncommon to have tag is applied <-here while the foot is -> (even for a hustling umpire). With proper distancing, we do our best. Important thing is to see the tag.

My point was that 3BLX in not the only place to be, as some have suggested. Do you think that 3BLX is the only place to be?

If you're going to pick ONE place to be...you should pick 3BLX.

Didn't say or imply that.

This is more in line with what I think has been said.

And, newer umpires, for whatever reason, tend to gravitate toward 1BX. They need to break that habit, get comfortable in 3BX and then get comfortable adjusting with the play (while still being set for the call). There just aren't enough tough calls at the plate to practice this and it's tough to simulate in any umpire clinic.

got to be ready to move (like Jagger)

All the moves like Jagger
I've got the moves like Jagger
I've got the moves like Jagger

There's no need to put your nose between the catcher and the runner. All you're going for is an angle.

This is what is being taught.