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-   -   Hunter Pence.. broken bat (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/92735-hunter-pence-broken-bat.html)

Tim C Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:37am

well,
 
Soon the "what ifs" will start.

T

Dave Reed Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:37am

C'mon guys,
Rule 6.05(h) is not meant to cover this situation. The rules of baseball aren't written or intended to be used where a camera taking a few thousand frames per second would be required to get the correct ruling.

Also, 6.05(h) requires that the batted ball be called foul if the bat hits the broken bat in foul territory. Yet, many batters are back in the box, and contact between ball and bat in foul territory occurs frequently. Is anyone here seriously advocating that a foul ball should have been called in this case if the contact with the broken bat was in foul territory? But that is what reliance on 6.05(h) would require.

It's simple. The batter made a normal swing and the ball was hit fair. It's a fair batted ball, and there is no reason to call the batter out. Trying to justify this obviously correct ruling by invoking 6.05(h) invites a wrong ruling.

dileonardoja Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:55am

Even though our eys don't really work in frames you could say at best the human eye can only detect 200 frames/second. This was filmed at 3000 fps. Thus the double hit would be impossible to visually detect and unlikely to be audible among the sounds of the initial hit of the bat the bat shattering. So in essence you don't need a rule because it is humanly impossible to discern this from any other broken bat batted ball.

The rule is written to deal with part of the bat that separates from the handle. In which case when both are still moving, it is a matter of perspective to say which hit the other.

MD Longhorn Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dileonardoja (Post 859720)
Even though our eys don't really work in frames you could say at best the human eye can only detect 200 frames/second.

Point of fact... Depending on what you're measuring, it's more like 10-15 frames per second. If you could see 200 frames per second individually, you would detect flicker in even the highest quality movies.

Manny A Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 859714)
Soon the "what ifs" will start.

As I'm sure they did when "The Big Unit" nailed that poor bird...

Rich Ives Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 859696)

The rule Rich quotes and Ozzy refers too seems to be written to cover the case where a bat breaks, and a detached part of the bat hits a fielder or IS HIT BY the ball, we play on. I don't think this, at all, implies the same ruling if the ball hits the bat.

.

If you're going to nit-pick it to that level then judge that because the ball was moving therefore it hit the bat.

The rule is there to punish the batter for hitting the ball a second time. As the batter has ZERO control over the broken off piece of the bat he could not no way no how possibly in any manner ever hit the ball a second time so he can't be guilty of anything about the incident.

Give it a rest and move on.

RPatrino Tue Oct 23, 2012 01:56pm

I believe it we sit and 'what if' this scenario to death, it will render this thread irrelevant.

briancurtin Tue Oct 23, 2012 02:27pm

What if the pitch was a rising fastball? SAump - what do you have?

Welpe Tue Oct 23, 2012 02:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by briancurtin (Post 859769)
What if the pitch was a rising fastball? SAump - what do you have?

We are not going there.

jicecone Tue Oct 23, 2012 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino (Post 859756)
I believe it we sit and 'what if' this scenario to death, it will render this thread irrelevant.

Which means there was a chance that is was relavant to begin with. NOT

dileonardoja Tue Oct 23, 2012 04:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 859723)
Point of fact... Depending on what you're measuring, it's more like 10-15 frames per second. If you could see 200 frames per second individually, you would detect flicker in even the highest quality movies.

Completely wrong but this is not a human factors forum so I leave it at that

SAump Tue Oct 23, 2012 07:42pm

Play ON!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by briancurtin (Post 859769)
What if the pitch was a rising fastball? SAump - what do you have?

Although some may claim that it is physically impossible, I remember watching a MLB TV replay situation where a baseball was "put into play" after the man at bat appeared to make double contact with the baseball. The bat struck the ball twice during the course of the swing's follow through.

I think the defense did bring it to the attention of the umpires after noticing the ball change directions while coming off of the bat. But I am not sure if the umpire ever acknowledged a second contact with the ball, and its relative change in direction, was ever made. He may not have seen it.

Ruled a base hit.

Steven Tyler Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:15am

The only time I can remember a ball double hit the bat is during a bunt attempt. One time I heard it, but didn't see it, so I just waited until the ball rolled foul.

Zurchen Wed Oct 24, 2012 02:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 859613)
Pence's odd double lifts Giants, confounds Cards | SFGiants.com: News

How many people will mis-undertand the rule on this?

Look at slo-mo at 40 second mark.

Probably few.

ozzy6900 Wed Oct 24, 2012 07:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 859714)
Soon the "what ifs" will start.

T

What if we just watched the games and not have to scrutinize every facet of every play and call. Kind of like the game was supposed to be enjoyed. No replays, no slo-mo, just sit back and enjoy a day at the park.


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