Tigers vs Yankees Blown call at 2B
 

I have never worked a 6 man or, even a 4 man crew in a baseball game.

My question is why the 2nd Base Umpire was running toward that play instead of in position? Am I ignorant of some other responsibility?

Joe in Florida
PS Go Tigers.

I was wondering that as well. My thinking is that he was in C?

But he should have been still. But I think the announcers need to realize they did have a better angle on it than the umpire.

But I haven't gone over it on replay yet.

(I just watched it over and over again on replay. IMHO, the umpire was too close and his head was moving.

But my favorite moment was when one of the reporters asked Girardi as he was whining about the "need" for IR, "But, Joe, you guys didn't score any runs!")

Rita

He certainly was moving while viewing the play and never really even came to a set position to call make the call. Had he been set he might have had a better chance to get the call right.

In this situation he would have been coming from B, I believe, however it does make me wonder why he was running to get into position.

It almost looks like he was too close to the play to see the tag underneath the runner.

Exactly my thought when I watched. He was too close to the play and saw the runners back but, not Cano tagging him below.

As pointed out though, there were two other runs scored in the game and NY didn't have any of them. So I guess the winning run was the missd call. SH## happens.

No excuse for the umpire for the reasons posted but why was there no tag to the bag by F4?

Remember, in the 1999 ALCS, the Yankees got the benefit of the doubt on a tag play in Fenway Park, leading to garbage being thrown on the field. I do think you need expanded replay in the postseason, because these tag plays are impossible for the umpires.

Sometimes, you anticipate the tag coming right at the leading edge of the bag, and put your focus right there. To me, it looks like what happened here. When you do that, you have a tendancy to try to get close. When you get too close, you sometimes lose the big picture,(or tag away from the bag).

As for moving, please remember that Suzuki dive at the plate, and how much Fred Astaire work the PU had to do. Movement is not aways bad, to get the right angle. It usually is to get closer.

Lesson: Angle over distance.

Movement while watching the play is always bad. Adjusting to get a better angle and then getting set to see the play is always a good thing.

The runner slid right over the glove. Why would you even begin to think there wasn't a tag? Look for a drop. If there isn't one you have a tag.

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I agree and in my opinion, he should have been moving back to "open the field". He was right on top of the play and could not see the glove under the runner. Bad positioning, bad call.

But 1 bad call shouldn't cost the game. If you loose because of a call, you didn't play hard enough!

New York didn't score any runs. The call was wrong, but it didn't matter.

Of course it mattered. It changed the game.

Say what?? :confused:

This tag play was far from impossible. If, as others have stated, he hadn't been so close and so high above the play, and hadn't been moving at the time, chances are he would've easily seen it.

The propensity for these guys to be that danged close to a play never ceases to amaze me. Maybe they do it to convince fans and the media that they are "right on top of it", but they should know better that that isn't the best position.

You're kidding, right?

The call was referred to in the headline in my morning paper.

Girardi spent a lot of time talking about it and how baseball "needs" expanded replay -- convenient for him that it left him less time to talk about his team managing 4 hits the entire game.

Wrong.

another blown call yesterday...
 

did anyone see the other blown call? there was a catcher interference yesterday with Nix up the inning before the Cano mess... it killed a rally bc he should have had first base with Ichiro coming up. not a single person reacted, not an umpire, not the batter, not a coach, not even the idiot announcers who saw it on replay

I have a hard time believing that if the announcers saw it, they didn't react.

How noticeable was it? If the batter and coaches didn't react, I have to believe it wasn't so blatant that it qualifies as a "blown call".

Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.

All the other arguments aside, what just annoys me to no end about this "gross miss" is that Nelson is at fault for failing to be in better position. I've heard the angle versus distance argument enough to know that Jeff Nelson should ABSOLUTELY know better than to run directly at the play while trying to make that call on the move. Angle versus distance should be second nature to Nelson. There is just NO EXCUSE for him not adjust his movement to be perpendicular to the play and to come set when the ball reaches the base so he can make the call from a set position. That is basic umpiring 101.

That an umpire who is deemed good enough to merit a postseason assignment fails at this most basic application of umpiring principles is very disappointing and turns out to be fairly embarrassing when it results in a gross miss.

I kind of thought that.

However, I have never been trained on 4 or 6 man mechanics.

So, am I right in assuming that he did not have any responsibility other than this?

If so, there is no reason on earth that he should have been running. Where was he when he started running, for goodness sakes? The ball was hit to the OUTFIELD. He should have been in a good position and adjusted if necessary. The running was a huge miss and that caused him to miss the call, probably.

Positioning aside, had Jeff Nelson been stopped for the call, he would have seen a "probable" (very high% because Infante slid right over the glove) tag occurring well before the runner's hand touched the base. Unless Infante miraculously missed the glove, he's out by a mile. The touch of the base was a secondary action - a bang (pause) bang play. Even if you can't see the physical contact between runner and glove, it's a very easy call. And it appeared Nelson was signaling Infante beat the tag, not that Cano missed the tag.

Awful. I feel bad for Nelson. I can imagine how he feels, and the fact that the Yanks were shut out doesn't help.

All missed calls affect the game. They might not affect the outcome. Yes, the Yankees still had a chance to get the third out without runs scoring. But, a 1-0 game with an inning that ends on a "high-energy" play is different from a 3-0 game where 4 pitchers (or whatever) were used to get the last out.


Here's what I posted on another board about this:
I agree on the "moving" part. But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second. Why did he start there? Any play on R1 back into second would best be taken from (about) the baseline between first and second. So, move to / toward that spot as the ball is hit or when R1 rounds second.

If there's no play at second and a throw goes to third, and BR now tries for second, there's plenty of time to move.

Another possibility -- R1 tried the "show the hand and take it away" slide. I think maybe the umpire got caught up in watching that move and was expecting a tag attempt on the hand and then just missed the rest of the play.

Those are the lessons I am taking from the play, in an attempt to improve my umpiring.

Because of that call:

1. The Tigers got four outs and a free baserunner, which they turned into two extra runs.

2. Three extra batters came to the plate.

3. A pitching change was made. The removed pitcher had given up three hits, no walks and one (really unearned) run over eight innings.

4. The Tigers took the field in the bottom of the ninth with a three-run lead rather than a one-run lead. Do you think the pitching strategy might have changed a bit?

Would the Yanks have won the game had the call been correct? Probably not (especially with their pathetic bats). But to say it didn't matter is ridiculous. Ask Jeff Nelson if it mattered.

Right, but shouldn't he have moved a lot earlier?

All that aside, if the Yankees hit the ball and scored in innings 1-8, there wouldn't be a problem. So as I said, if 1 bad call blows your game, you didn't play hard enough!

That's my entire point --either move earlier or start from closer to the correct spot.

This play did not cost the Yanks the game.

But, your comment is silly.

What if it is a tie game in the bottom of the ninth, the home team scores a run on a foul ball ruled to be a HR.

Did one bad call blow the game?

This is a bad miss and the umpire is moving and likely misses the perspective to make the call. We have all been there, but I would expect a little better mechanic from an MLB umpire that does not have to get to another base like most of us do in our games. Oh well, another day another dollar.

And one of the reporters said, (twice, I think), "But, Joe, your guys didn't score any runs."

Rita

Not disagreeing, but I didn't see that in the ESPN video (that was part of the SC piece on the play with Garciaparra).....is there any video out that showing that?
Stopping the ESPN video at 00:39 and again at 00:43 seems to have him more toward the first base side of second. of course it doesn't follow all of his movement in the play.

Or at about 4 seconds, when the ball is hit, he's clearly on the 1st base side ... where he's supposed to be.

Problem is, I think he was genuinely surprised by the "pick-off" from right field, and completely unprepared for it. So he ran, and didn't see what he should have seen.

I don't think the positioning was that bad, just where he was focusing his attention was probably wrong. IMO, he was looking at the hand and the base, and not the whole picture.

Good tags are made right before the base, but you can't anticipate that's where it's always going to take place.

Separate issue.

Are you kidding me? His positioning was AWFUL! I don't do six man like they do in the postseason, but with 6 umpires on the diamond, what else should he be doing? Isn't R1's touch of second Nelson's responsibility. Clearly the play at second was and instead of moving perpendicular to the base to gain an angle and coming set when the ball arrived, Nelson was running directly at the base, was to close to the play and was moving when he went to make a call. All this is basic umpiring 101, which a playoff rated umpire UTTERLY FAILED AT!

My comment was based on what I saw at the time. Maybe he didn't make it all the way to the third base side but he was, imo, too far toward that side. And, again, it's a lesson for me to use when I'm BU in a similar situation.

Seems to me from the places in this video (starting at 1:58 or so) where I could see Nelson, he was in the right position to begin with. For whatever reason, he felt he had to move closer to the bag to make the call. There was no reason to, IMO.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Call: Infante ruled safe on a close play - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Ummm Maybe Im wrong but isint that now reviewable??

Yes, but you get his point.

If you need a more realistic scenario, make it a walk-off double down the line that stayed in the park, but replays that cannot be reviewed show the ball was foul.

You are correct I get his point, and I agree that their is a completely different feel going into the bottom of the inning with a 1-0 game vs a 3-0 game and yes momentum would have been with the Yankees. However to say OZZY is wrong for making his comment is ALSO wrong. Because infact he is correct. Take care of business in one of the first 8 innings and maybe that call wouldn't matter at all.

I explained this to my 9 year old Saturday, and she got it. Umpires (should) get it much easier.

Some mistake made late in a game (whether by umpire or player or coach) is no more important than the same mistake made earlier. The umpire makes one mistake, but the Yankees failed to prevent one other run, and failed to get on base 27 other times (minus baserunning outs and DP's, I suppose).

My daughter made the last out of her game the other day, a game they lost 14-12. Her out was not the reason they lost, even though she thought so. The rest of the team made 8 other outs (3 inning game). Their defense allowed 14 runs. ONE out, ONE mistake by the umpire, ONE hit by a player, ONE coach's error in sending a runner, pinch hitting, turning in the lineup in the first place, etc... does not cause a loss.

Yup!

Was it a bad call? Yes, obviously. Did it cost the Yankee$ the game? No, obviously.

You do have to score to win. In the 21 innings of this series so far, the Yankee$ have scored in 1 inning. That's right.. one.

In their 78 official at-bats, they have 20 strikeouts.

Yeah, the lack of "pressure" on the Detroit pitcher cost them the game. Sure, Joe. You betcha.

Will it result in expanded replay? Yeah, probably, since it happened to the Yankee$!

Maybe, but Joe was trying to link them and the reporter wasn't letting him.

Rita

My friend, your job as a team is to score runs. If you wait until the last inning to do anything, it is not the fault of the umpire. I don't care what your situation is, if you sit on your duff and don't do your job as a team, don't come running to me if I blow 1 call! So JW, I guess your response to mine is what is silly.

You're right. Umpires should never be blamed for anything-EVER.

1 ump blown call...vs atleast 27 at bats with opportunities to put runs on the board... YOU tell me which looks like it would have a greater effect on the outcome of the game??

The valid parts of the rest of your post notwithstanding, that is not what happened. Just watch the imedded video in APG's post. Freeze it at 3 seconds and you can see Nelson clearly in B. At 7 seconds he is directly between the mound and the bag on the grass at the cutout, about one step on the first base side of second--you can see space between the bag and the left side of his body. All he had to do was get set right where he was at the time of the throw and he would probably would have got the call right. Instead, he ran directly toward the bag in an attempt to get closer and made the call on the move, too close to the play.

I agree with this assessment. I noticed that he opened up toward the ball, and actually may have taken a step or two toward first. I don't know why, if he in fact was moving toward first, he did that. Perhaps that was why it looked like he was in a dead sprint to try to catch up with the play?

That's just not true. A foul ball called fair for a two-run HR in the bottom of the 1st of a V-1, H-0 game leaves the visitors 24 outs to overcome the error. That same call in the bottom of the 9th puts an L on the board. You can rationalize all you want about the things the visitors "should have done" in their nine at-bats preceding the last-inning mistake, but the timing of errors matters a great deal in terms of importance.

I always feel worse ringing a guy up on a pitch out of the zone than I do if it's a lousy call for strike one.

The question isn't which have a greater effect. These are the best players in the world, often evenly matched. The difference between a runner in scoring position and no runner in scoring position is a large one.

That said, what's the difference? How one looks at an umpire error in judgment shouldn't be impacted by the situation. It's no better or worse. But excusing it based on whether it affected the outcome is answering the wrong question.

And interestingly, they just missed a tag in game 2 of the NLCS. Looked like good positioning. Why after a missed call can there not just be an inning ending double play? Naturally, the Giants are having a huge inning.

No homers, no runs. Two 2 runs dingers, and solo shot last night. You would think the highest paid club by far in baseball would play harder than that. The highest paid player has to sit the bench on this team.