Bryce Harper ejection
 

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | WSH@MIA: Harper is ejected after throwing his helmet - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Some anylists seem to think that an umpire needs to lay a player down on the couch and query him as to how he really feels before taking disiplinary action on the field.

I know I'll catch heck for this but I have no problem with this ejection.

Simple math
Close play + helmet toss = ejection

No amount of money can buy this punk any level of decorum or maturity. Expect to see this for the next two decades.

I wonder how my employer would handle it if I threw staplers, lamps and keyboards from my desk when I got pissed off, regardless of the reason.

As a Nats fan I watch him play every night. He is passionate, enthusiastic, plays the game at 100% on every play every day, and is certainly immature with much to learn. I personally do not consider him "a punk."

I for one hope he finds a mentor (there are several candidates in this club house) and keeps most of the aforementioned good traits, learns from his mistakes, and continues to grow-up.

I thought this play to be just another one of his immature, frustration moves. He will either learn or not. If he doesn't learn he will get, or continue to develop a bad reputation, and then will have to try and defend his every action. I hope that is not the case.

Time will tell which direction he goes.........

This strikes me as right. Whether he is a "punk" remains to be seen, IMO. His fans read his tantrums as misunderstandings ("he was mad at HIMSELF, not trying to show up the umpire!"). But mature, self-controlled players take their tantrums out on the water cooler.

No doubt he's fun for Nat's fans to watch, when he hasn't been ejected. ;)

IMO that ejection was Horse Crap. CB was too quick with the hook. If he delayed for a second or two he would have realized that BH was mad at himself and not the call. The league will take care of it with a fine. This isn't HS where you CANeject for removing the helmet in LBT but usually after a warning. This is a case of OOO and putting the screws to a Rookie who may already have a less than stellar rep althought that was his first EJ

BTW I am not a fan of the Nats or BH.

Regardless of his motive, he needs to learn the consequences of that action. Suppose the helmet had richocheted into the umpire's face (or crotch, for that matter)?

Personally, I think Harper is a passionate, hard-nosed throwback type of player, and I echo the hope that he finds a good mentor to show him the ropes.

Throwing equipment while on the field is an ejection at any level. Like it was said earlier, mature players can make it to the dugout before blowing up. The umpire should not have to ask himself what a player's motivation is for throwing stuff. Toss and move on.

Absolutely. It's on Harper 100% to be angry with himself somewhere else. Righteous EJ at every level, and any umpire who puts up with such displays fails to understand game management and can look forward to some long and unpleasant games.

If your skill set was as rare and in demand, and millions of dollars were sunk into/will be sunk into you for the foreseeable future, then I'd imagine an employer would give one a pass.

As to the play in question, it's not the most egregious offense (as I do believe he threw the helmet in frustration due to hitting into the DP), but I don't really have a problem with an ejection. If one doesn't want to be ejected, don't do an act where you have to put an official in a position to make a judgement.

Proper onfield decorum shouldn't just be expected from seasoned vets. It seems like this kid has been given a pass at every level from the time he started playing, With the old excuse that he plays 100% on every play, plays with passion, etc. None of these are reasons that should allow for basically a temper tantrum because he didn't have a call go his way. He is gaining a rep. for being a hot head and its not going to be easy for him to change that first impressions.

I was pleasantly surprised with Davey Johnson's comments after the game. Pretty much what was said here. He needs to control himself better. Didn't fault the umpire at all in postgame.

Exactly! We can't throw things around on our job when things don't go our way, why should baseball players be allowed to? I'm not going to stand there and try and analyze why the player threw the helmet, I'm going to dump him and his manager if he doesn't like it!

Yikes.

If I used the CB standard, I'd have about two dozen more ejections per year.

That was weak at any level where the players have two digits in their age. If a player doesn't look at me, doesn't gesture, doesn't say anything, and the equipment is thrown down (i.e., not across the diamond), that's frustration with himself and does not need to be punished.

Ozzy: "I'm not going to stand there and try and analyze why the player threw the helmet, I'm going to dump him and his manager if he doesn't like it!"

That is the difference between an amatuer umpire and a professional one. The amatuer automatically ejects...pretty easy to do and doesn't require much thought. Professional umpires are PAID to think about the situation, analyze and then determine the appropriate action. You think like an amateur umpire and that may be ok at the level(s) of games that you work. However, CB is a MLB umpire who is paid a lot of money to think before he reacts. In my opinion, he handled that situation in amateur like manner... which is not expected from a MLB umpire.

How funny: my first thought was kinda the opposite. Bucknor's EJ of Harper for this makes my job easier.

I might be alone here, but I would certainly eject in a HS game for this without batting an eye, and would probably eject in a college game as well.

I don't have a problem with Bucknor ejecting Harper here. If he doesn't want to leave, he shouldn't throw his helmet and make the umpire decide what his motives were. With that said, I don't think Harper did it maliciously and I don't think he's a punk. I think he is young and has some growing up to do and plays extremely hard.

A) You have no idea who you're talking to, do you. B) This ties for the most idiotic post ever on the internet. It doesn't matter the reason, you don't chunk your equipment in anger on the field. Veterans know this... maybe Harper knows it too now. Maybe one day, you will too.

I laughed.

Spiking gear is pretty much an automatic EJ in the the majors regardless of motive.

Welpe: "Spiking gear is pretty much an automatic EJ in the the majors regardless of motive"

Your statement should read "Spiking gear AT AN UMPIRE OR UMPIRE'S CALL is an automatic EJ at any level"

Harper slamming his helmet was NOT directed at the CB Bucknor... and if he would have waited and read the situation a little more before giving him the thumb, he would have realized that.

I don't think so. You'll see spiked bats and helmets quite often after a swinging third strike and nary an ejection.

Now a spike after a called thrid strike - different story.

You're definitely not alone. I have tons of partners who eject for things at the HS and college levels that I'd never eject for. Mostly they're injecting their own opinion concerning what's acceptable behavior instead of whether the ejection assists with game management.

Your point about Harper making the umpire having to decide motive is valid, but doesn't alter the fact that CB decided wrong.

Agree, he would only need to dump 2 or 3 before word gets around and everyone's job is easier.

you wouldn't make it through the minors with that attitude.

I live in MD and follow the Orioles and Nats. Harper should have been tossed a few times this season and was'nt.

Anytime Harper gets ejected it is a good thing. I have no sympathy. Act like an adult if you want to play with the big boys.

Peace

I once ejected a player in a professional game for spiking his helmet. The first base coach was on me in a second arguing the ejection, saying "what did he do?!? What did he do?!?" The manager came sprinting out of the dugout. I braced myself for what I was sure was going to be a long argument with the manager...only to have the manager run past me, go right to his player, and start yelling at his player, "we don't do that in professional baseball!" (Among other things he said to his player.)

Next inning, the first base coach came out and said, "sorry, I didn't see him spike his helmet."

Professional managers, coaches and (at least, veteran) players know that spiking one's helmet after a close call is an automatic ejection. Davey Johnson's comments echo the knowledge of the vast majority of professional managers/coaches.

Actually, Ozzy's "attitude" would be anything but a hindrance to him going far in the minors.

I guarantee you that there is not one professional umpire (at least a professional umpire in an NAPBL or MLB league) that thinks CB's ejections was wrong.

I happen to know UES and I agree with him regarding this EJ. I think when it come to equipment we need to take in as much information as we can before deciding to eject. The spiking of a helmet on a called 3rd strike as the rat says " you have to be f%{king kidding me?" is the easy EJ. The play that CB had is it so simple.

Again, if hes not tossed, CB would have had a longer night in that locker room from his crew. Quit thinking about how you feel about officiating the game and understand how the Big Boys do it, Period

You don't get to the show by just being a nice guy.

Watching the incident on the video, what I saw was a young man look directly at the umpire and then spike his helmet.

I do think that he spiked the helmet out of frustration for hitting into a double play. I think he was looking at the umpire for the call.

But still, he was looking at the umpire just before spiking his helmet. It's understandable that he was ejected.

The behavior problem is still the player's.

Rita

It's understandable coming from Bucknor. Two guys named Angel would have done the same. So too would, I'll bet, DJ Reyburn and Rob Drake. Nobody else I can think of would have.

Bob Davidson comes to mind as one who would have run the kid.

Tim.

Spoiled Primadonna who got taught a lesson from an adult about how to act on a baseball field!!!

You wouldn't eject for this in a high school game? What else do you put up with from kids? Drawing lines? Barking at you from the dugout? I don't understand how you wouldn't eject in a high school game. College players get a little more rope, but not a lot, so this would probably earn them a trip to the showers too. From what it sounds like, the pro guys on here would do it too (And some have).

Holbrook ejected Greinke in Houston a few weeks ago for spiking the ball. There's another guy. I bet we can come up with more if need be.

Well, he certainly did act like a 10 year old :rolleyes:

Envy is a pitiful quality to possess.

That would explain that sour puss look he always has.

Your right. Some of these guys pump their chests out so far they don't need a chest proctector.

It's not the first time he's been ejected this year.

He already had 2 HRs in the game. What an idiot to get ejected.

And my point still remains...it's not realistic to compare what we could get away with in a "regular" job compared to what a pro athlete/celebrity/movie actor, etc would be allowed to get away with.

I think it wasn't particularly smart on his part to even place an umpire in the position to have to judge whether to toss or not.

A guy slamming his helmet in frustration after hitting into a DP is not, to me, something that he needs to be dumped for. I don't care if he's 14 or 40.

I'm not as full of myself as the average umpire. Players "get away" with a lot at every level when I'm on the field. A HS player can yell "F**K!" when he pops up with the bases loaded, and I don't care. A simple, "Hey, don't do that anymore, 'cause you're making us both look bad to the Puritans" has never failed to solve the "problem."

Drawing lines is an auto eject; that's showing me up. Guys who are full of themselves and who think being an umpire is some sort of higher calling often disagree with me, and that's OK. Differences of opinion on game control techniques aren't the end of the world. I have two ejections in 120 games so far this year, and I don't think I've let anybody slide that I should have run.

I don't require much from players as far as behavior: Don't show up either me, my partners, or the opponents, and you can cuss, dip, and show frustration if you want. Teaching sportsmanship is a coach's job, not mine.

Holbrook's ejection of Greinke was every bit as weak as Bucknor's, but your (and others') point is taken: I'm sure you can think of other guys who would eject, that I didn't.

Yeah, on the MLB play that's being discussed in this thread, here they are:

Umpires: Roster | MLB.com: Official info

Now I know who that manager is referring to when he says "They let us do that last game & didn't say anything."

And <i>I</i> know who they're talking about when they say, "Most of the umpires we get act like everyone's here to see them."

Yep, when a HS player "yells F**K" on the field, it's all about the umpire.:rolleyes:

Half right. We don't teach it, we enforce it. You're allowing this and the helmet slam in the OP just makes the job of the umpires after you more difficult.

I'm just a reporter of what happened. Players and coaches eject themselves by their actions.

Seriously you two?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sorry for being late to this party, but I was away from computers during an extended Labor Day weekend.

First and foremost, I don't care for any form of frustration taken out on equipment like this. It bugs me when I see even the youngest of kids who hammer the ground with their bat as they head back to the dugout following a swinging strike out. I also see things like helmets and bats being thrown into equipment areas, gloves being slammed against benches, etc.

For those who say it's no big deal when it happens inside the dugout, I feel that's a cop-out. It's unsporting whether it happens on the field the moment a player fails, or it happens a minute later inside the "protection" of the dugout. If you see it happen, what difference does it make where it happens?

That said, there is an accepted tolerance by umpires to let things go depending upon:
- the location of the act
- the age of the player
- the game situation
- the direct cause of the act (frustration at himself/herself vs. obvious disagreement with an umpire's call)
- any "collateral damage" inflicted, especially if it is inflicted on or near the umpire
If an umpire deviates from that acceptance, he/she is viewed as either too lenient or too over-officious.

Which brings me to this particular play. In my opinion, Harper should have been tossed. But then, many MLB players should have been tossed in games past for slamming their equipment when they strike out, when they hit into a DP, when they fail to catch a fly ball, etc. But routinely they don't because MLB umpires look the other way. And I feel CB should have looked the other way on this one.

A few weeks ago, we discussed a situation where an Oriole player was tossed after he slammed his first baseman's mitt on the ground when the PU overruled U1's call of Out at first. That one was pretty obvious that he was acting out on the PU's reversal.

What was Harper acting out on here? He never looked at CB, never yelled in disgust "NO!" or "THAT'S BULL SPIT!" or gave any other indication that he disagreed with the umpire's call. If Harper's act really warranted the ejection, then there are plenty of other acts I've seen that should similarly warrant the same result...and they rarely do.

Speaking of overreacting Nats, I recall a couple of years ago when Nyjer Morgan was on the team, and he missed a fly ball against the wall. Instead of going after the loose ball and throwing it back to the infield, he reared back and slammed his glove on the ground. Did that deserve an ejection? For those who argue, "Of course not," then why should Harper's act deserve one? To me, he was just as frustrated for grounding into a DP late in a game where his team was losing as Nyjer was when he muffed the catch.

Again, I prefer that all that crap results in ejections, regardless where it happens or why. It's unsporting conduct, plain and simple. But as long as we continue to ignore it under certain accepted standards, then we deserve criticism when we violate those standards, as I believe happened here.

I'm dumping him for that 100 times out of 100.

IMO, If he hangs on to his helmet and slams it against the ground, I would let it go. He chose to THROW his helmet, which I would eject for.

Harper's act had the potential to cause injury. Morgan's didn't.

So Manny... I am a little hung up on your contradiction here. Should he have been tossed or not? How can you say he should have been and then say that CB should have not tossed. Very confusing....

But he did look at CB. He was looking at him for the call. True, he wasn't looking at him with a glare but he was looking at him and he threw his helmet just after.

CB didn't take the time to think of WHY Bryce looked at him.

It doesn't change the point you made, but it is an explanation of why he was tossed.

Rita

I guess I didn't make my point clear. My bad.

I feel that all these kinds of incidents should result in ejections. There should be no leeway given.

But leeway is given depending on certain circumstances. In my opinion, a couple of those circumstances existed here. That's why I think CB was too quick to pull the trigger.

You're right, Rita. I went back and looked at the play again, and he did look at him as he ran by.

What I also saw when I revisited the video was CB telling Davey Johnson, "I don't know why he threw it!" If he had taken a little more time to watch Harper as he went by, he might've surmised it was more out of frustration for hitting into the DP than out of anger at the umpire's call.

Reading the same lips, I'm getting "I don't CARE why he threw it!" Which personally I agree with.

IMO, the reason Harper got tossed is that he has developed a reputation.

If Derek Jeter (not that he would have) did the same EXACT thing as Harper I doubt very much he would have been tossed.

It's like World Peace (Artest) in the NBA. He gets NO-leeway because he has a reputation.

Also, not just with the Harper incident bu CB is not a "well loved" official to begin with.

FWIW I doubt very much Harper would have been tossed if this were a play-off game.

Paul O'Neil took his helmet off plenty of times and did not get tossed. Got fined but not tossed. This is major league baseball not kiddy ball.


Pete Booth

How so?

Context matters. I've ejected players for slamming equipment, and for yelling F**K. When they do it obviously only in frustration over their own poor performance, I don't see the need. If other umpires want to eject as a matter of course without making those sorts of distinctions, I haven't made their job more difficult; they've done that to themselves.

Swing and miss for strike three (with no disputed pitches during that at bat) and then slam your helmet/bat in frustration = I (umpire) am looking the other way.

Strike out on a called strike three and then slam your helmet/bat in frustration = ejection. (When player complains that he was "mad at himself" I'll suggest that he wait until he's in the dugout next time before becoming "mad at himself.")

Hit a ground ball, get thrown out at first base by 10-feet (or more) and then slam your helmet = I am walking away (unless the helmet/bat makes contact with me.)

Hit a ground ball, get thrown out at first base on a "close call" and then slam your helmet = ejection.

Context does matter, I agree. However, in CB's play, the play at first base was a "close call". At this point, it doesn't matter why the helmet was thrown. The B/R has just stuck it up CB's backside. On the professional level, this has to be addressed immediately. That's game management on the professional level.

This was a no-brainer ejection.

I think we're all in agreement CB has no brains.;)

Gee, I guess I owe Drake an apology.

Cano Slams Helmet

I thought about this thread when I saw that, and then he directed his comments to U1. I guess the playoffs are a different animal. But so is CB. Don't think I've seen Old Sour Puss in the playoffs. Wonder why?

Yeah, good restraint. You're gone in the regular season.

And I wouldn't disagree with that. Cano's reaction was animated disagreement with the call, not frustration with his performance.

;)

Must have been because I believe he has gone 3 for 36 in playoffs.