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  #121 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 08, 2012, 10:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
No. The "I'm not going to call this in ANY situation" position is untenable.
I' would never ever, ever and I mean never call it. Even if my partner fell flat on his face unconcious at the plate. Have a good day.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 08, 2012, 11:02am
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If I may,

This is from "Maximizing the Two Umpire System" By Jim Evans and Dick Nelson. ISBN 978-1-4243-1636-6. Chapter 2: "Defining and Understanding Resonsibilities" Pg 24.

7. RUNNERS LANE

"Regardless of the runner situation. the plate umpire is initially responsible for all interference calls involving the runner's lane. With no runner on base, the base umpire has to move into fair territory for position on the potential play at first on the batter-runner. With runner(s) on base, the base umpire is working in the infield. In neither of these two situations will the base umpire be in a position to get the proper angle for the interference call. However, if the plate umpire fails to call an interference that was obvious the the base umpire, the base umpire must step up and make the call. If there is a possibility of a runner attempting to score on the play, the plate umpire should assume a position on the first base line extended. "

I think all parties involved in the discussion should be satisfied with this authoritative interpretation of umpire responsibities involving the running lane. (But I doubt it).

Regards,

Mike C
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 08, 2012, 12:55pm
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Are you qualified to copy and paste "authoritative interpretations"?
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 08, 2012, 01:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
Are you qualified to copy and paste "authoritative interpretations"?
I dont know Jim Evans and he will never work at my level, so what he has to say means nothing to me.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 08, 2012, 01:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan View Post
I dont know Jim Evans and he will never work at my level, so what he has to say means nothing to me.
The last I heard this publication has not been made official by MLB, NCAA or FED and it isn't what we use at the clinics I do and you'll notice he doesn't include the word "always."
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2012, 12:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan View Post
I dont know Jim Evans and he will never work at my level, so what he has to say means nothing to me.
Well, I suggest you Google Jim Evans. He's had a hand in a few things at the highest levels of baseball.

Interestingly enough, he's been in the news in the last couple of days.

Jim Evans umpire academy files antitrust lawsuit against minor league baseball - The Washington Post
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2012, 12:26pm
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I am more than sure LMan knows that!
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2012, 12:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
I am more than sure LMan knows that!
Sorry, I didn't see his emoticon in his post.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2012, 02:22pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Sorry, I didn't see his emoticon in his post.
Sorry, I didn't know I had to be so obvious




emoticons are for the weak
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 12, 2012, 03:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
Jeff:

I have never seen a published mechanics manual that has PU rotate to third when the ball stays in the infield. If the ball goes through the infield, there won't be a RLI call to be made.
The CCA has gone to this in the last year or two. The PU rotates to third even if the ball stays on the infield. I could be wrong, but I think someone said on one of the boards that the PBUC book says the same thing for 2-man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307 View Post
In discussing this with a friend there is indeed one situation where the base umpire makes this call. It happens only if HPU falls flat on his face unconscious and the base umpire is the only one awake to call it. So I guess it's plausible.
Disagreed. I am 100 percent with dwfump and his citation from Evans. From everything I have been taught (By very good NCAA umpires), the PU is primarily responsible for RLI, but the BU had better step up and call it if the PU doesn't for some reason and it's obvious.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 12, 2012, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
The CCA has gone to this in the last year or two. The PU rotates to third even if the ball stays on the infield...
This is only true for one circumstance and only in 2-man. If the initial play is at 2nd base with R1 only and if R1 is safe and a throw goes to first base then the PU would have R1 at third. In this case, however, it is incredibly unlikely that there will be a RLI. I might even say impossible, but...

The reference is 2012 CCA manual pp. 65-66.

However, with a ground ball with no throw to second base the CCA manual p. 67 changes the responsibilities as follows:

Quote:
PU: remains in the area of the plate to judge fair/foul and any interference possibilities between BR and the catcher. PU then moves toward the first-base line to observe potential running-lane interference. [italics added] PU communicates to U1 that he is remaining on the line.

U1: Has all plays at first, second or third base.
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Last edited by tcarilli; Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 04:18pm. Reason: added CCA reference and language
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 12, 2012, 06:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
Disagreed. I am 100 percent with dwfump and his citation from Evans. From everything I have been taught (By very good NCAA umpires), the PU is primarily responsible for RLI, but the BU had better step up and call it if the PU doesn't for some reason and it's obvious.
Exactly my position.

Peace
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 12, 2012, 07:24pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Exactly my position.
If you had made that clear in your very first post, there wouldn't have been 130 others.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 12, 2012, 07:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
If you had made that clear in your very first post, there wouldn't have been 130 others.
Actually I did make it very clear that I did not take the "never" and "always" position that many seem to love to live by here. And then I stated that there was not such reference in any mechanics or books. Then again I would have thought competent umpires would realize the rest. But I should have known better that baseball umpires tend to be very rigid in their thinking if it is not what they think it should be, even if there are reasonable examples to contradict that philosophy. Much like when we discuss the use of a counter or any other helpful device to our job.

Peace
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 13, 2012, 08:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
If you had made that clear in your very first post, there wouldn't have been 130 others.
I thought he was pretty clear. Obviously at least 2 vociferous individuals here disagree with Jim Evans. They must have more experience than him.
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