Fair/Foul down 1B line
 

I was the PU for a Junior Legion game tonight and had a 2-man mechanics question come up on a seemingly routine play. Nobody on base and batter pulls a ball down the 1B line. Ball hits in foul territory about halfway to first base and continues past 1B about 1 or 2 feet foul. I raise both arms and call "foul". Before the next pitch, my partner working in A position catches my eye and taps himself in the chest, signalling that was his call, not mine.

I talked to him between innings and said I thought that was my call because it went foul before reaching first. He agreed that the PU has fair/foul responsibiliy "up to" first base, but his reasoning was that since the ball isn't foul until it passes the base, it's his call. I'm in my 2nd year and he was a veteran guy, so I said "fine" and let it go. And it didn't come up again the rest of the game.

Is he correct? If so, it seems the PU should only make fair/foul calls on the first base line with nobody on base if the ball comes to a complete stop before reaching first or a fielder touches it before it reaches first. Everything else would belong to the BU. Is that how people here do it?

Your partner was right, and you've drawn the correct inference. The ball can also become foul if it touches something other than a fielder or leaves the field.

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Some people use the image of the "pane of glass" at the front of the bag. It's PU's call to the pane of glass and BU's call after.

Rita

If he's at "A" position, it's his call....unless you called it foul (correctly or incorrectly) before it got to first base, then its your call (and you've got some 'splaining to do Lucy).

Thanks guys. After listening to my partner's explanation last night, I totally get it. I'm just surprised this never came up with any other partners before last night. I'm pretty sure I've called similar balls foul as PU before, and pretty sure I've watched my partners call them foul when I was in A, and it never "felt" like either one of us was stepping on the other's call.

One other question. I worked with one partner this year who wanted the PU to take all fair/foul calls all the time. This eliminated any confusion re: whose call it was in the situation above, and allowed the BU to focus on the runner touching first on a ball into the OF down the 1B line. The only exception would be a "trouble" ball where the BU went into the OF.

Anybody else do it that way? Or see any potential problems (assuming both umpires are on the same page during pre-game)?

Proper mechanics and clearly defined responsibilities eliminate confusion.

Common practice is for the BU in "A" to take all fair/foul hit past the 1b line. Now, on some fields with no chalk lines past the bag foul balls can be troublesome, and in some cases the PU will take all foul balls down both lines, but I don't recommend it.

A ball hit toward the line, down right field with the fielder coming toward the line and the ball possibly going into the RF corner IS a trouble ball, and the BU would have a much better angle on any calls on this ball. This is why I don't recommend having the PU take all fair/foul calls on the 90 foot field.

the only time I di that is when there is no RF line. It's easier for HPU because he has the bag and pole to line up an imaginary line.

Another reason not to give PU "all" fair/foul calls: the bounding ball near/over first base. PU is too far and often too slow to get eyeballs on that.

I agree with no OF Foul lines it is easier for the PU to line the base up with a point in the OF. Thats the importance of pre-game. but sometimes you just never know.

Had a men's league game yesterday morning (over 40), just money ball. Worked with a partner for first time and tried to go over pre-game but he had over 30 years experience and said it wasn't necessary. OK Batted ball down fist base line stops on line after roll. Fair ball? No he decided to call it foul as soon as it left the bat? R1 advances to second on foul tip. He says it is a foul ball? Ok, I'm not going to try an teach an experienced official that knows it all, lets move on. Sometimes you just have to umpire, even while rolling your eyes.

This weekend I was working BU on a field with no foul lines in the OF, and my partner and I had pre-gamed that he would take fly balls near the line to RF when I'm in A.

But I went out on a long shot down the line which had a chance to get out. It ended up hitting the fence 2 feet fair, which was easy enough to see. I'm glad it was that deep, though, since if it had hit the ground it could have been tough to read.

Coach here with an add-on question - if the BU is in B or C, does the PU then have all fair/foul calls down the 1st base line (i.e., past the pane of glass at 1B)?

Well it's either PU or your base coach, coach!

I've had partners suggest that. My thinking is that my call, whatever it is, is going to have to be good enough. If there's no line, I'm still going out and giving it my best guess.

lol...

In a 2 man system, the only time the field umpire ever has the primary fair/foul call is when he is at "A" position and a ball is hit or passes between first base and the right field foul pole. Everything else basically belongs to HP.

I can not remember the last field I worked on that did not have lines down the lines, some may have not been refreshed lately, but there was a line to see.

Just delete this post.

I know what you are trying to say, but a new umpire will read it entirely the opposite of what should be.

If I'm reading this right, that contradicts what I learned the other night, and what most people here are saying. The ball in the original post never passed between 1B and the RF foul pole. It hit foul halfway between home and first, and remained foul as it passed first base. But it was the BU's call.

If the ball does not come to rest or is not touched in can not be foul until it touches or passes first base, therefore the fair/foul belongs to U1 in A position. So a bounding ball that goes beyond first base can not first go foul before the base.

If it made it to or past 1st base fair or foul (i.e. travelled at least 90 feet from home plate down right field line) and you had an umpire at "A" position, it WAS his call. If it did not make it to 1st base, it was HP's call.

Be careful, not necessarily true.

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PU has fair foul up to the base. Don't over think it.

+1

It is exactly true. That ball is never a foul ball. It is in foul territory, but it is not a foul ball.

Ok, under the heading of "If you think there are no stupid questions, just wait until a coach asks one!" I'll take that one squarely on the chin! Of course it makes sense that such calls would belong to the PU, but I sometimes find what makes sense and what actually is in terms of rules/mechanics have a remarkable amount of distance between them, hence the post.

Oh, and I've offered to make calls for the crews working my games in the past and strangely enough they're not too receptive! Not sure why as they'd have to do less work and still get paid. Maybe I'll just keep trying... ;)

Fair enough. :)

I think my problem is that I UNDER-thought it my first year as an umpire, and assumed that "up to the base" meant that if the ball hit foul before 1B it would be the PU's call when the ball eventually passed the base.

And since nobody corrected me until the other night, I'm guessing a lot of other umpires are thinking the same way.

That makes it sound like PU has the base. He does not. I prefer Evans' "base and beyond: base umpire"