On deck circle
 

Does OBR (Babe Ruth in this case) require that players use the on deck circle on their side of the field? I know FED does but I can't seem to find it in OBR.

yes

OFF INTERP 76-89: PBUC: “The next batter up must be in the on-deck circle, and this is the only player who should be there (i.e., not more than one player at a time). This shall be strictly enforced. No other player of the side at bat will be permitted on the field except the batter, base runners and coaches.”

Um ... Johnny ... read his question again. This interp has NOTHING to do with his question.

This question has surfaced this summer in my area. The summer leagues around here are allowing batters to use the on deck circle on the side of the batter, so for a RH batter, they use the 3rd base on deck circle. They cite safety as the basis for allowing this. I don't happen to buy into that logic, but we allow them to alternate on-deck circles.

Proper decorum dictates that you take your swings in your own on deck circle. Enforce this at all levels and there won't be a problem.

When the kid gets hit because he is not paying attention in the batter circle the is in front of the batter and not behind him, then maybe you will. Most players do this specifically because it is safer but, what the heck do they know they are just kids.

In my close to 40 years of involvement in baseball I have never seen an injury from an on deck hitter getting hit. While I don't agree that this particular action is an obvious safety issue, I do believe in working to prevent injuries.

Bob, the reason I think it is a good idea is just the oppoisite. In almost 30 years I have seen it happen twice. Luckly nothing serious but, it did happen.
Base coaches wearing helmets was never considered a big deal either until someone got injured.

Unless there is some obvious problem with interaction between teams, I will always allow this.

Local League rule, go with the flow, if they allow it or require it.

The reason I asked was that I was doing a Ripken League game as a favor last week. I knew it had been common practice in this league to do this so I didn't object. The weather was VERY hot and a few times I had to hold up the game to allow the on-deck batter to safely get over to the on-deck circle on the other side of the field. This (coupled with other game-slowing behavior) was starting to irritate me since I am accustomed to High School ball that I have more control moving the game along more quickly.

It has everything to do w/ the OP. Read it again.

Both baseball and fastpitch softball (NFHS, NCAA, OBR, ASA, and USSSA) require the on-deck batter to use his/her team's on-deck circle if he/she is going to use an on-deck circle to warm-up. The reason is that the on-deck batter should be under the superversion of his coaches and keeps him/her away from the oppossing team.

MTD, Sr.

Citation please. I'm not disagreeing with you but I cannot find this requirement in OBR. The closest I can find is prohibiting due to safety concerns or game expediency reasons.

The problem is that all books recommend 37 feet from HP, based upon a field similar to MLB baseball, which is seldom the case for most youth ball. Most fields that youth ball plays on do NOT have a 60 ft backstop distance. Therefore the ondeck circle is usally closer and at a more direct angle than normal.

To not allow a player to be in a safer location because of this is just being way too OOO. Maybe you should be going after the parks Dept. director, Mayor or local officials but, heavens sake, we should all use some common sense here.

Here is a novel thought. It it is too unsafe for an on-deck circle, perhaps they shouldn't have one. More so if the field doesn't allow it to be done safely. Allow the hitter to warm up behind a fence. I know some of the newer city fields that I have seen have a little area next to the bench that is big enough to allow that.

In most cases, the leagues that advocate using the opposite side on deck circle are the younger kids. They probably don't need the on-deck circle anyway. For me personally, it was quite distracting to have multiple players passing behind me between batters and pitches. I can see that becoming an issue during a play when one of these young players decides to move to the on-deck circle too early.

Maybe this is a regional thing, but I haven't worked a single game in the 11 years I've lived in this area where a team tried to use the other circle. Probably cause it wouldn't be allowed...

One's OOO is another's expected practice.

I agree and I am certainly not saying it is common for the games I have done either however, the few times I have allowed it, is when it was an obvious safety concern and it was most always in a youth league, probably 13-14 and below. Similar to a condition that could easily be found in a Babe Ruth game that was in the original op. Again, sometimes you just have to umpire.

Where I work at 12 and below (we only do a small fraction of the 12 year old games) they typically allow this weird (to me) practice, but once they are playing Babe Ruth (or above) it is not allowed.
When I started working games at this level I would ask about rules differences and they always say there are none, then this would come up and they would tell me it's ok. I just had to ask the coaches why they didn't mention the rules difference. I can work with whatever rules they tell me are in effect but not telling me what the rules are is a little unfair and tough to work with.

BTW I do understand the safety aspect of this rule as it is normally only used with much younger players (12 and below) and as they are normally not playing on 90' diamonds their on-deck batters only have 15'-20' if they are backed up against a fence, I just wish the coaches would mention stuff like that if asked for rules differences, most of us work games under 2-5 rules codes during the year with all sorts of little "local" rules thrown in just for "fun".

Stuff like that reminds me of working Pop Warner football in its first season locally (we have another youth football group as well), we ask both coaches before the game what rules differences there are from NFHS rules as the league did not provide our association with a rule book. They go over some point differential rules, and the first half goes off without a hitch. Then in the 2nd half one team brings out a football that looks like an arena football, gold ball with some odd looking black stripes (they had previously been using a regular looking HS football). I don't allow it and the team freaks out. I go over to talk to the head coach and ask him why he didn't mention the ball before the game and he said he didn't know there were any rules about the ball in the rule book. :confused: Apparently the football was the 'official Pop Warner' football and perfectly legal, after confirming that by talking to both coaches, it still stuns me when I ask for rules differences and there is something so obvious and it doesn't get mentioned. Then we enforces the "normal" rules we get yelled at.

Jasper

Wouldn't it be unsafe if an wild pitch hits a batter who insists on going to the other side of the diamond? Now I have not seen anyone get hit yet, but it has almost happen several times in my career, which is the reason I believe the NF has the rule in the first place to stay on your side of the diamond. Now if you cannot pay attention during live play and get hit by a ball anyway, well that is a different story. Now I do not work Babe Ruth or any OBR games under those rules, but as a general rule I would not allow a player to use the other batter's box.

Peace

I don't want to get into a needless argument here. It's not a big deal. But your post tells us WHO is allowed in the ODC. The question was - are they allowed to use the ODC on the other side.

Personally, it bugs me when they want to use the opposite ODC, but not to the point that I'm going to stop it, especially when I have no rule support for doing so.

Rut, a player can trip up the dugout steps , miss a pop fly and and get hurt with the ball breaking his nose, trip over a glove, etc, etc. But just because some kid is clumsy or injured because of lack of ability doesn't mean that the umpire then has a right to not use some common sense.

Stratref get over your hangup about coaches not caring about the same rules you spend hours learning because it is not going to change. Coaches even at the PRO level don't no or care about all the rules we do. THIS IS A GAME to most of them and the participants, just a GAME!

No, the NF rule was put in as a preventitive sportsmanship measure. Evidently, some areas of the country were having issues with OD batters being in front of (or very near) the opposing dugout.

That is not the way I remember it being explained when the rule was emphasized. And when players cross they often do so when there is a warmup. Either way I do not see much benefit for going to the other batter's box for multiple reasons.

Peace

Well you call it common sense, I call it liability. If you do not apply the rule and someone gets hurt, they will come after you for not applying the rule. There are already evidence of these situations. Just look at the situation that took place in Texas and the football coach that was run into by an officials on the field (Referee Magazine highlighted this story and court case). Sorry, but if a kid falls on the steps and breaks his nose is quite different than getting hit by a ball while not being the the proper space by rule. One is an accident, the other someone might hold you responsible on some level.

Peace

I don't believe it's accurate that one box is safer than the other. Unless the box is DIRECTLY behind the batter (it rarely is), I see no difference.

As explained to me, the feeling is that if there is a right handed batter at the plate, the safest on-deck circle to be in would be the one behind him.

I still contend that if the age group of the players is such that they can't pay enough attention to be in their proper on-deck circle and do so safely, or if their particular field does not accomodate on-deck circles that are far enough away from the plate to be safe, then they don't need on-deck circles at all.

They might try to hold you liable. In the case you mentioned, the officials were exonerated.

I did not say they won. But those officials also had to get lawyers, take time away from their jobs and deal with a court case hanging over their head for a period of time. So they had to spend some money or lose money to defend themselves either way. This is why companies and individuals often settle for an amount to not spend all the money fighting a case only to find out they were not responsible.

And for the record to everyone else, it was not the individual that sued the officials in the case I referenced, it was the insurance company that paid medical bills and wanted to hold the officials responsible to get their money back. So it might not be the kid or the family that sues you for not applying a rule, but some other body that feels you did not do your job and wants to limit their responsibility.

Peace

How hard is it to keep the player on his side of the dugout? Not very hard, IMO. If he don't like it, tough caca!

Generally, not hard -- the issue arises when league (or even organizational --- see Dixie for example) rules state they MUST be on the "safe" side.

Well they better clarify what that means if they want uniformity or consistent application. But then if that is there rule it should be applied.

Peace

Rut, please don't try and convince someone that if you do or do not enforce a rule, you will or will not have a law suit. You know better than that. A good lawyer will call everyone in and try and convince the jury their ALL guilty, if he can. Somehow you got the word Justice mixed up with Dollar.

I am not saying which side is the best side, or that one way is better than the other. Sometimes officiating does require common sense though and for the 3rd time, sometimes you just have to umpire.

I know of a local league that has a league rule for 12U that anyone who slides head first shall be called out and no run scored if at the plate. They consider this a safety rule, so you either call it that way or find another league to call in. Their national affiliation has no such rule and when they go to tournaments this will not be called, but by then their league players will not be doing it, and others may.

Where they stand in ODC is either covered by a national association rule, or a league rule if they so choose. I don't know why it would be so hard to allow it if the league does or go find somewhere else to work if you don't agree.

I buy good liability insurance but would rather take my chances in litigation enforcing a league rule well documented than not enforcing because I don't agree with it.

First of all I am not trying to convince you of anything. Do what works for you and I will do what works for me. If you want to allow a kid to go over to the other side, that is on you. I have enough experience to know what I am going to do and at the end of the day you will have to live with the consequences of your actions just like I will. If the rules are clear I will follow them. And I do not have to agree with you that your use of rules is common or makes sense. I have been doing this long enough to form my own opinions on these things either way.

I have also done this long enough and been respected enough when I say something it is followed. Like I just said in the other sport site, I think many worry too much about what crap they are going to get from coaches and others. We have a job to do and if they do not like the job we do they can find someone else to do them. I'm good with what I do and do not go around worrying about what others do on the field. Yes, sometimes we have to umpire and sometimes we have to stand on our own principles. Trust me, you will get over it either way. ;)

Peace