Shortstop throws warmup pitch
 

In a 14U tournament yesterday (T4) the shortstop stopped at the mound picked up the ball and threw a pitch from the rubber. He then proceeded to take his spot at short. I called him back to the mound and explained that his warmup requires him to pitch to the first batter. Was I correct in applying Fed rule 3.1.2?

Yes - but maybe you should have been getting a drink or something and not seen it. ;)

No, in FED, he isn't a pitcher. 3-3-1:
..... Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:
a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,
b. a pitcher takes his place on the pitcher’s plate,
c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has
replaced, or
d. a batter takes his place in the batter’s box.

He's still the shortstop.

That further reinforces Rich's suggestion. Don't pick that bugger if you don't know the rule.

Read b. again and then Rich's response.

Read the bolded part about the ball being live. Warm-ups don't count for the substitution rule.

A difference between FED and OBR in the substitution rule, but when did ball become dead?

The JEA discussion is that absent a mgr discussion the sub is in when the intention is obvious. FED does not have a JEA discussion, so when is it obvious, or will we allow 4 warmup pitches by someone, and then the pitcher take the 5th?

The ball becomes dead at the end of each half inning, when the defense can no longer put a player out (5-2-2).

I don't much care who takes the warmups. After 5, we're going with whoever's on the mound.

Oh God, this sentence brings back painful memories of the 10-page thread (slight exaggeration) we had 5 years ago (or so) on whether or not the ball became dead between innings under OBR.

I was thinking that exact same thing!! What a thread that was.

The rule is 3-1-1 not 3-3-1. It's also not relevant as the shortstop is not a substitute under 2-36-1 as he is not eligible to replace another player in the lineup as he's already in the lineup. The relevant rule instead is 2-28-1:

"The pitcher is the player who is designated in the lineup as being responsible for delivering (pitching) the ball to the batter."

Ironically, there doesn't seem to be a proscribed method for changing the designation.

I know dat's right.

I think the ball would become officially dead when the defense has left the field, and no longer has the opportunity to appeal at the end of a half inning.

What I do, is as soon as all the defensive players have left the field, I loudly yell, "TIME".....

Wayne and Garth had it right in Wayne's World: yell "game on" and "game off" any time their street hockey game was interrupted.

After reviewing all posts, rules and the BRD it appears this is a difference between OBR/NCAA and FED. OBR does not make a live ball distinction, FED does. Original post was about a FED game.

Should make an interresting conversation if SS comes out and takes 5 warmup pitches and then defensive coach wants someone else to pitch, who should get 8, right, since ball was not live SS was just fooling around.

First, if the ball is not dead in OBR, why do umpires start each half inning with "Play!"?

Second, no matter who's goofing around on the mound the "pitcher" gets 60-90 seconds to warm up.

Here goes another 10-page argument thread like the donnybrook we had 5 years ago.

Not all (not even many that I've seen at every level) umpires start each half inning with "Play!" As stated by many of us back then, many of us feel that the ball is not dead between innings, because nothing happened to cause the ball to become dead. These same umpires, myself among them, do not believe in pointing the ball into play every inning. The very first pitch of the game, and then when putting it back in play after the ball has become dead, are the times when I point a ball back in play. Unless I specifically indicate to the pitcher to not pitch for some reason, I don't put it in play at the start of every half inning.

"Hey. Get off the mound."

Problem solved.

There is an official ruling from MLB Commissioner's office denying a protest which, by its nature, set a precedent for this issue. Billy Martin was involved in the game (shocking, huh?) back in the 1970's or 1980's. A protest was lodged (and subsequently filed) when the home plate umpire refused to acknowledge that the shortstop (or some other fielder) had become the pitcher (and thus required to face one batter) when he stopped on the mound on his way to his normal position and (fooling around) threw a warm-up toss to the catcher. The game was protested, and the protest was denied. Thus, the official MLB interpretation is that this action does not constitute a substitution. We learned this in umpire school.

If I am not mistaken this entire situtation was also laid out in some umpire's (auto)biography, too.

In The Umpire Strikes Back by Ron Luciano he explained the whole situation. It was Lou Pinnella warming up the infielders due to Chris Chambliss suffering a cut on his hand after being forced out at 2nd base to end the inning and Sparky Anderson who was in his 1st year in Detroit said that Lou was now in the game defensivley at 1st base and Bill Haller said no and thus Sparky protested the game. A little later in the same game Lance Parrish made the final out of the inning and Rusty Staub who was in Detroit at the time(and was the DH in this game) came out to warm up the pitcher and Billy lodged the same protest as Sparky had.(P 201-202 in the Umpire Strikes Back) Lee McPhail(AL President) rejected both protests and that is how it all went down. Play by play of said game in question

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1...060DET1979.htm

Thank you for the specifics. Obviously, my memory was not perfect as the actual situation did not involve a player tossing a warm-up pitch, but, rather, involved position players being warmed-up by a potential substitute.