Indicators: are the metal ones better?
 

I seem to be hard on indicators... I find that the clicking mechanism seems to wear out on me rapidly. I've gone through 2 of them this season so far, over the course of about 40 games.

Not a huge deal, since they only cost a $5-6 apiece, I can afford to replace them often, but I'm wondering if they metal ones will last longer then the plastic ones that I've been buying so far (I haven't yet found a local shop that sells the metal ones, but I can get plastic ones from any number of places).

So, what have your experiences been? Are the metal indicators worth the price?

Metal or Mental????

Try going without and train your mind to not need one.

Then you can keep the same one in your pocket for years and years.

Then you don't have to look down every pitch and check and change the wheel while everyone is looking at you.

Thank you for that completely unhelpful response.

That was not an unhelpful response - the Shicker is trying to make you a better umpire because most people use an indicator as a crutch instead of a tool.

Yes, the metal ones are better. Make sure you don[t by one with 3 strikes, 4 balls, 3 outs and innings. You only need 2 strikes, 3 balls and 2 outs so by one of those.

And learn how not to depend on your indicator!

I don't look at my indicator after every pitch or every play. I used to do so in my early years like I'm sure every other umpire did when starting out, but I've been relying on it less and less.

Right now, I probably look at it about once every other at-bat, or after some unusual action (wild pitch, steal with an errant throw(s), etc). 95% of the time after a 'normal' at-bat, I can reset it to 0-0 and the appropriate number of outs without looking. And yes, I'm working to further reduce the number of times I glance at my indicator.

It's not a crutch, it's a tool. Just like the lineup card is a tool... I hardly think that most umpires would suggest that I memorize the lineup and all of the substitutions/reentries/courtesy runners that take place during some of the games that they work.

For the record, I pretty much stick to the 4-wheel indicators... not because I need the innings portion, but because they feel more comfortable in my hand (and easier to update) then the 3-wheel indicators do.

I've had one metal indicator for years. I only bought a new one because the wheels had worn smooth.

Don't worry about the mental superiority complex of the others. For me it is a tool to allow me to focus on other aspects of the game. We all have different gifts of the mind. Some can hold the count in their head. I am not one of those and prefer to keep the count on an indicator.

I have the wheels notched and flattened so that I can read the count with my fingers.

Rita

I have a metal indicator that I've used for years. Definitely prefer it over the plastic ones.

I find the metal indicator is more durable and that it fits more comfortable in my hand because it's thinner. But its plastic wheels will still wear and are susceptible to things that may eat plasitc (like mosquito repellent. Also, the metal surface is reflective, so be aware of the angle to the sun when you glance at it, or you may get blinded for a bit. Come to think of it, that reflectivity may be a good thing because it will help train officials to only glance briefly when they do glance at all.

I'm old school and still use the 3-wheeled 3-4-3 plastic indicator. (However, I always suggest to newbies they use the 2-3-2 if they ask.) I have a dozen of them and I permanently keep at least one in each ball bag. It's come in handy, at times, if one breaks or my partner needs one. Plus, I keep several in a small pocket in my gear bag.
I, also, use it as a tool and can change it and reset it without looking. I do not buy into the line of thinking that "not using an indicator makes you a better umpire." (Sorry, Ozzy.) I agree that the possibility is there that it could potentially keep your head in the game more if you don't use one, but the more troublesome outcome is you lose the count. I'd rather have the count correct and avoid trouble than attempt to boost my ego by attempting to keep the count in my head.

I realize this is slightly off topic, but.....

An even worse thing is when base umpires are carrying indicators in state tournament finals and staring at them after every pitch. Saw that one last week.

Some of the same guys had brushes and cleaned off the pitcher's plate and the bases between innings and gave an "out" mechanic for EVERY fly ball caught during the game. :rolleyes:

This is par for the course in my neck of the woods....sigh

Get a metal Markwert and never look back. You will pay more than $5-6 but it will be worth it. I ordered online.

Sorry RadioBlue, if you forget the count mentally or forget to move the wheel, either way you have an error. I used to carry one and got so good that I only had to look at it occasionally. A friend of mine challenged me to not use one and I found out I made less errors than using one at all. So I switch about 20 yrs ago.

What works for you and others is totally your business. I am also aware that some Associations and Leagues require it use. Over the years though, I have generally found 3 reasons that some insist on its use.

1. Tradition. (Sometimes called stubbornness to change)
2. Perception. (Some people just can't imagine others having this ability).
3. Inability. (Some people just don't have this ability).

As with so many other officiating qualities, how you get the calls correct is up to you. Just get them correct the best you can.

It's Markwort. $17 at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Markwort-Stain.../dp/B0002U3VQI

The 3 dial is just $6.71

http://www.amazon.com/Markwort-Metal...9199870&sr=1-3

Oh by the way I still have an old electronic one I used. It would light up as you pushed the button and then it would clear with one push of another button. It was cool and great for night games. Especially when you get around 40 and the eyes start going squiggly-do on you. Hard to see the lights in the daytime though.

You can get one for $11 or $12 if you surf some. Honigs has one for $9, but it is not as smooth as Markort.

I prefer 4 dial. I don't use on bases but always on plate. Each to his own.

Everyone has their own opinion, take it or leave it. Hickey gave you his opinion, there is no need to flame.

+1

Not using an indicator doesn't make you a better ump; using an indicator properly can

It's too bad some people can't shake the notion that somehow you're a better umpire if you don't use an indicator. That's just plain ridiculous.

My lovely wife bought me a metal indicator, and had it nicely engraved.

My first game with it was an afternoon affair, and my first glance at it nearly blinded me with the glare. It was completely unusable. It stayed in my bag for a few years, and was "lost" somewhere along the line.

Please don't tell her.

Oh yeah, and it was really heavy.

I try not to work with one, if I have decent scoreboard worker as a backup.

I still use the electronic Honig's, even though the battery drowned in the washing machine years ago. It's got to be ten years old, with hundreds of games on it. Still smooth as glass.

I use the 4 wheel all metal case all metal gear indicator. All Star brand. It's nice and heavy.

I don't think anyone believes that not using an indicator makes you a better umpire and that was never stated in this thread. An indicator is a tool, used properly it can make doing the job easier. Used improperly, it can cause problems.

I will say this, probably the best game I ever had was one where I forgot my indicator, and didn't realize it until I was about to put the ball in play on the first pitch. I did not once miss a count, where using an indicator that has happened to me on numerous occasions.

For the record, I use a plastic 3-2-2 indicator, big numbers model. Unless I forget it.

Always great to know what inning your in, and that 4 ball, 3 strike wheel lets you know when it's a strikeout or walk. Hell, they even have a 3 out wheel to let you know that's all a team gets an inning.

Keeping the count in your head can cause its own problems. Don't forget to add the pitch to the count when there's a wild pitch with a subsequent play.

R3, two outs, 1-2 count, tie game. F1 throws a 58-footer that bounces away. R3 tries to score, F1 covers. I was so intent on maintaining my ego-fed record of NEVER losing track of the count that on a whacker at the plate, instead of calling "SAFE" or "OUT", from my perfect 3BLX position, I confidently announced "Two balls, two strikes!" :D

I use a metal 4-dial Markwort and I like it. I've had it for years and it is just now at the point where I'm considering replacing it because the wheels don't click as well as they used to. I like the thinner profile and how it fits my hand.

I can work a plate just fine with an indicator. I can go multiple at bats without looking at it but it's a nice safe guard just in case.

No. 1. "Not using an indicator doesn't make you a better ump; using an indicator properly can "

No. 2. "It's too bad some people can't shake the notion that somehow you're a better umpire if you don't use an indicator. That's just plain ridiculous."

No. 1. PERCEPTION

No. 2. There are probably just as many that believe you can't be a better umpire unless you "DO" use an indicator.

For years, I had to listen to people tell me how using, what used called the "Wrestler type position" at the plate was just wrong. "You need to work more in the slot", "on one knee" "etc". No one uses that position unless they use the Balloon which is archaic. But when some guy name Davis comes up with a variation of that position, then everyone thought it was cool.

Tradition, Perception. Its like wearing a certain color shirt, tucking your jacket in, patent leather accessories, high top plates shoes, white trim on base or plate shoes, plate beanie vs 4 stitch vs 6 stitch hats. When to cover third as a PU. Being in the B or C position etc, etc.

As I have said in so many things including officiating. Quit being narrow-minded and always look for ways to improve your mechanics, presentation and overall ability to do a good job.

Umpires and players come and go, the game always moves on with or without them.

So you're (1) giving your base umpire a spare one, and/or (2) wearing a ball bag on the bases.

It smooths out after a bit. It's as smooth as my Markwort now.

Rita

agreed. Calling strikes and outs, that's what makes or breaks the umpire. Not whether he has an indicator or not.

Never had a coach argue a call and bring up whether I had my indicator with me or not >>>> :roll eyes:

Thanks
David

Perception? Maybe.

I suppose not all umpires who wear their ball bags on the bases are Smitty's, but I would also bet that more Smitty's do so than good umpires.

Likewise, using an indicator on the bases doesn't make one any less an umpire, however...

If you are going to shell out for a metal one, dont settle for metal case plastic wheels. Get the stainless one with stainless notched wheels. I think I got my from Between the Lines. I agree with all comments about it not being a crutch but since I work many games with lackadaisical scoreboard operators and even poor bookeepers... Lets just say we would have played the sixth inning twice in a game this year if I had not noticed and yes even I had to look. The notches let me confirm the count by feel. To me its just another tool.

Exactly my point.

I've never used notches. I can work it just fine without them. I'd rather take a quick glance down, than feel for the count.

Love the big 3-2-2. I can see it at night without having to hold the old four hole at arms length, and maybe be able to read it. I have on occasion had to have the coach read some names off the line-up, my reading eyesight has gotten so bad recently.

Just to throw some more fat on the fire - with nice clear HD close ups, you will notice that the most MLB guys, even with huge electronic scoreboards all around them, still use indicators on the plate...have seen metal and plastic used, so that doesn't help the original question though...

personally, I use the metal 3-2-2 with no innings for softball, where we hardly ever have scoreboards...

From the way some of these guys jumped on the thread starter, I guess those MLB Umpires are the weaker ones....SMH

PBUC MANUAL pg 5

It is mandatory to use.

You know:

No one ever said that using an indicator makes you a poor umpire (at least neither I nor Shicker did). I don't know where you people got that idea from. When I said Shicker was trying to make the poster better, I stated the use of the indicator as a tool, not a crutch (as many of you out there do - don't lie, now).

By the way, my association requires that two umpires use indicators at all times (the PU being one) in 2, 3 & 4 man crews. So the way you people are talking, we are all lousy umpires! Maybe ya'll should read and comprehend before you lash out with your diarrhea!

Done

Hey now Ozzie, leave my bowels out of this!!

Plate umpire only, I believe.

J: Good points. If you use your brain or an indicator as your tool to keep track of the count and you use either improperly, you're in trouble. I have no issue with umpires who are able not using an indicator. I've just seen some who don't use them give other who do crap for doing so. I don't think that's very productive and could put an umpire in a bad spot trying to "impress" or "look cool." "To each their own" is fine by me, but some guys need to lay off those who use them. There is the belief among some who think those who use indicators are somehow inferior.

C'mon, Andrew! I'm not wearing a ball bag on the bases ... I'm wearing TWO! :D :D ;)

(My last name is Smith. Does that make me a Smitty?) :p

I am fascinated by your idea and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!

Now, where's my dremel tool?

Excuse me? What?

Funny thing and maybe its just me, but the heavier weight of the metal indicators causes me to drop them accidentally more often than the plastic kind. I like their feel much better, but I definitely have to keep a better grip on them.