Obstruction Protection
 

R1 R2.
Ball hit to the outfield.
R1 goes to third and rounds third.
R1 touches 2nd starts to head towards 3B but is obstructed by the SS. R2 keeps on going. However, he sees that his teammate has stopped at third base. Runner then tries to retreat to 2nd base but it as tagged diving back in.

I know obstruction is used to protect the runner to the next base they would have gotten to. However, if it ends up that base is not available is the runner still protected and therefore put back on second base?

I think you mean "R1 keeps going."

You don't specify the rule set. In FED, you must award at least 1 base beyond the last legally touched, which would require that R1 get 3B and thus score R2.

For OBR, the penalty for type B OBS is to award bases so as to nullify the obstruction. The obstruction did not prevent R1 from returning to 2B, which he had to do as a result of R2's choice to remain at 3B. Indeed, the hindrance might have helped R1. I would therefore not make an award in this case: R1's out stands.

Let me try again.

FED

Runner on 2nd base stops at third base.
Runner on 1st is the one that is obstructed after rounding 2nd and is ultimately thrown out going back to 2nd base. 3rd base was occupied which is why R1 ended up trying to get back to 2nd but was tagged out.

That's what I understood. My FED response is correct for this case. F1 gets 3B, forcing you to score R2.

I'm told I left out one fact.

R1 rounded 2nd, was obstructed, went to 3B and rounded it and THEN saw R2 coming back to the bag. R1 then tried to get back to 2B.

Does that change anything in FED?

I believe it does.

3b coach must be asleep.

Nope, you don't force a runner that hasn't been obstructed. And I hope you mean R1.

So am I understanding you correctly that you'd have runners on 2nd and 3rd ?

FED:

If you rule a runner was obstructed between 2B and 3B you MUST award him at least 3B. If that pushes another runner to the plate so be it.

You cannot unring the bell.

I'd have to see that one in writing.

RIF.

FED 8-3-2, 4th sentence "If any preceding runner is forced to advance by the awarding of a base or bases to an obstructed runner, the umpire shall award this preceding runner the necessary base or bases."

Other codes have similar language.

Now, in the revised FED play where obstructed R1 reaches third, and then retreats to second, I'd let the play stand.

I do not have my book in front of me but I'm thinking that if the runner advanced to the base to which he would have been awarded due to OBS, then voluntarily retreats to a previous base, then he gets nothing from me. I think this would be my ruling in either OBR or FED.

So, R1 went all the way to third, went past third, and then for some reason decided he needed to go all the way back to second (probably because he saw R2 coming back to 3rd?) . While on his journey to 3rd, he was obstructed between 2nd and 3rd (you made a verbal, 'that's obstruction' call). Anything that happens after this point is irrelevant to the obstruction question (in FED). R1, after playing action is over, will be awarded 3rd, R2 (who I assume was originally at 2nd), gets home.

Now in OBR, unless R1 was obstructed on his return to 2nd, I would ignore the obstruction that occurred on his advance to third and the out would stand.

If, by some happy coincidence, the words 'that's obstruction' never left your lips, you are lucky my friend.

Not true. Once the runner reaches the base he would have been awarded, the obstruction is ignored. You can have post obstruction evidence, of course, but that's going to apply to awarding additional bases. If the runenr decided to retreat, the obstruction isn't reinstated.

Agree. When R1 acquires 3B, the obstruction has been nullified, the mandatory minimum 1-base award has been satisfied, and we're done with the OBS.

If that runner then (idiotically) chooses to return to 2B during live-ball action and is subsequently tagged out, that out stands. The runner doesn't get 3B, come what may. Had he been tagged out immediately after rounding 3B, that out would have stood, too, and for the same reason: the awarded base has been acquired.

Good info. Let me ask one more related question.

R1. BR hits a gapper. R1 is obstructed by SS and returns to 2nd base. BR would have had an easy double but sees R1 return so he tries to get back to 1B but is tagged out.

Do you award him 2nd base?

Correct. As long as this is not a case of OBR type "A" (which is immediate dead ball) obstruction (which it isn't in this case) advancing to next base nullifies obstruction unless you think the runner would have advanced to home absent the obstruction (not the case here due to lead runner retreating).

If you had a R2 & R1, and R1 was obstructed by F3 going back to the bag, yeah advance all runners due to the obstruction....That's as good an example as any. When both runners are running in "reverse", it kind of hard to advance runners.

Does it give a case play to any effect?

I don't have books anymore.

Yes.

The FED penalty explicitly spells this out:
"When a runner is obstructed (2-22) while advancing or returning to
a base, the umpire shall award the obstructed runner and each other runner
affected by the obstruction the bases they would have reached, in his opinion,
had there been no obstruction." (8-3-2)

BTW, the next sentence applies to your original case:
"If the runner achieves the base he was attempting to acquire, then the obstruction is ignored."

Are you sure you read his post correctly?

Good info. Let me ask one more related question.

R1. BR hits a gapper. R1 is obstructed by SS and returns to 2nd base. BR would have had an easy double but sees R1 return so he tries to get back to 1B but is tagged out.

Do you award him 2nd base?

BR was not obstructed, R1 who was obstructed was returning to 2nd and BR was thrown out.

Never-mind, I c now.

I always thought it was runners in advance of the obstructed runner who would be effected, never looked at it from this aspect though. So even a following runner would be effected by the obstruction. Good to know MB, thanks! I obviously never had it happen or I would know better.

Your scenario applies to a preceding runner, not a trailing runner. R1 is on his own. He wasn't obstructed with. Remember it's a delayed dead ball. Playing action is still happening.