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-   -   Brett Lawrie - Failing to Retouch? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/91313-brett-lawrie-failing-retouch.html)

SAump Wed May 23, 2012 07:04pm

Brett Lawrie - Failing to Retouch?
 
Bret Lawrie and another bad call. Wait until he sees the replay.
Video
Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | TOR@TB: Upton doubles off Lawrie at first - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia
Article
Brett Lawrie hits umpire with line drive totally by accident (VIDEO) | Big League Stew - Yahoo! Sports

mbyron Wed May 23, 2012 07:42pm

Call looks OK to me.

briancurtin Wed May 23, 2012 07:45pm

Here's another angle from the first base dugout:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1134592/lawrie1.gif

SanDiegoSteve Wed May 23, 2012 08:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by briancurtin (Post 843130)
Here's another angle from the first base dugout:

Isn't that where the best angle comes from to make a call?:rolleyes:

SanDiegoSteve Wed May 23, 2012 08:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAump (Post 843122)
Bret Lawrie and another bad call. Wait until he sees the replay.

What's bad about the call? If he sees the replay, he'll know for sure he was out.:confused:

As for the video of Fletcher getting hit with the line drive, he moved in the wrong direction. Umpiring 101 sez: Move toward the foul line when ball coming at you!

Rich Wed May 23, 2012 09:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 843132)
What's bad about the call? If he sees the replay, he'll know for sure he was out.:confused:

As for the video of Fletcher getting hit with the line drive, he moved in the wrong direction. Umpiring 101 sez: Move toward the foul line when ball coming at you!

Depends on the spin. As U1, if it's coming right at you, the best place to go to avoid it is actually a step into fair ground. But our training tells us to stay so if we do get hit it's foul.

SanDiegoSteve Wed May 23, 2012 09:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GROUPthink (Post 843133)
Depends on the spin. As U1, if it's coming right at you, the best place to go to avoid it is actually a step into fair ground. But our training tells us to stay so if we do get hit it's foul.

Yeah, that's what I said, toward the foul line. If you're standing just outside the foul line, into fair territory is where you go. You can call it just fine from there. He just backed up into the ball and got nailed. In all fairness, it was a fairly hard hit ball.

MrUmpire Wed May 23, 2012 10:20pm

I give. Where's the bad call?

SAump Wed May 23, 2012 10:55pm

Travesty?
 
Citation 7.08i (eye) comment.

Take the same pop up slide and carry his momentum away from third base, does he have to retouch 2B?
http://www.thescore.com/home/article...another-umpire

"Touching the Bases in Order and Retouching
It's understood that a runner must advance from first to home by touching the bases in order. Where the confusion comes in for some people is when the player must go back to their original base. In this case the player must retouch all bases in reverse order. This situation occurs most often in the following example:

Runner on first base. Ball is hit into the outfield and the runner thinks it's going to drop. He runs past second base and the ball is then caught by the outfielder. He needs to get back to first base before the throw in order to not be forced out.

The correct way for him to do this is to first retouch second base before running back to first. If he runs back to first without retouching second base, the correct call would be for him to be out."

thumpferee Wed May 23, 2012 11:07pm

First video, ump nailed it!

Second video, ump got nailed!

BSUmp16 Wed May 23, 2012 11:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by briancurtin (Post 843130)
Here's another angle from the first base dugout:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1134592/lawrie1.gif

This was a major league quality call. From this angle there is no doubt he attempted to advance beyond 2d base and failed to retouch on the return. In that situation I can only hope that I would have caught the base running error and made that call. Nice job.

Rita C Thu May 24, 2012 12:12am

Call was good.

But I'm really surprised a Major League umpire didn't know to move fair. Of course I learned that the hard way myself. Got me in the calf.

Rita

thumpferee Thu May 24, 2012 08:39am

This play brings back memories.
 
I had the dish and my P was in A. Same ball hit down the line. My P, who was a rather large guy, dove fully outstretched and vertical, about three feet off the ground toward right field corner. Ball hit him right between the cheeks:)

Batter, catcher and me look at each other with our jaws dropped. The catcher looks to me and says, "did that really just happen?", I responded, "the question I have is, what if it had got stuck"?:eek:

asdf Thu May 24, 2012 09:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAump (Post 843143)
Take the same pop up slide and carry his momentum away from third base, does he have to retouch 2B?

Probably not, but purely a HTBT.

His original pop up slide didn't take him to 3rd, it took him "up". In trying to find the ball (like any good baserunner) he made an attempt towards third, thus making him responsible for re-touching because the ball was caught.

If that same action (the sideways shuffling of the feet) happens after passing first base ( usually when the ball gets past F3), that's going to be ruled an attempt to advance as well.

johnnyg08 Thu May 24, 2012 05:21pm

Mr. Lawrie is establishing quite the reputation for himself.

SanDiegoSteve Thu May 24, 2012 07:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 843189)
I had the dish and my P was in A. Same ball hit down the line. My P, who was a rather large guy, dove fully outstretched and vertical, about three feet off the ground toward right field corner. Ball hit him right between the cheeks:)

Batter, catcher and me look at each other with our jaws dropped. The catcher looks to me and says, "did that really just happen?", I responded, "the question I have is, what if it had got stuck"?:eek:

The question I would have had would have been, "Did anybody get that on video?":p

jwwashburn Thu May 24, 2012 08:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 843288)
Mr. Lawrie is establishing quite the reputation for himself.

I do not think he was out of line in this play...he jawed a little and left...he he had been out of line, they would have dumped him.

thumpferee Thu May 24, 2012 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 843297)
The question I would have had would have been, "Did anybody get that on video?":p

One can only wish! It might have been the funniest thing I ever saw on a ball field! Sorry P!

DG Thu May 24, 2012 08:57pm

The byline with the video says he was doubled off at 1b, but the video does not show a throw to 1b, and I assume that is because the throw went to 2b, where the base was missed. We don't see that throw in the video either, but the explanation seems to be coming from 2b umpire, who would have made the call.

SanDiegoSteve Thu May 24, 2012 09:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 843307)
The byline with the video says he was doubled off at 1b, but the video does not show a throw to 1b, and I assume that is because the throw went to 2b, where the base was missed. We don't see that throw in the video either, but the explanation seems to be coming from 2b umpire, who would have made the call.

I haven't seen the other videos, just the one from the 1st base dugout camera. They might have thrown to 1st to try and double him off, and just tagged him instead of 2nd base...out either way. U2 call all the way on it regardless too.

johnnyg08 Thu May 24, 2012 09:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843299)
I do not think he was out of line in this play...he jawed a little and left...he he had been out of line, they would have dumped him.

Other than throwing a helmet at an umpire prior to the 4 game suspension.

jwwashburn Thu May 24, 2012 09:54pm

I meant this play.

johnnyg08 Thu May 24, 2012 09:57pm

I guess my point was that he'd maybe be a little calmer considering the last time...especially b/c he really looks like even more of an idiot b/c he was 100% wrong for throwing the fit (arguing something that he clearly lost because he was wrong)....he reminds me of that idiot from U of South Carolina who faked getting beaned and took it so far that he got ejected only to have the video remain on You Tube for eternity.

jwwashburn Fri May 25, 2012 12:15am

so, you do not think it is possible this guy thought he was right?

SanDiegoSteve Fri May 25, 2012 12:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843327)
so, you do not think it is possible this guy thought he was right?

He might have thought he was right, but he can rest assured, he was wrong.

jwwashburn Fri May 25, 2012 01:22am

Understood...he was wrong.

I just think his reaction here was one that was not out of bounds

Rich Fri May 25, 2012 04:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843327)
so, you do not think it is possible this guy thought he was right?

Since when is it a player's role to jaw at the umpire?

johnnyg08 Fri May 25, 2012 05:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843330)
I just think his reaction here was one that was not out of bounds

Compare his reaction to what we see and hear in MLB everyday. His behavior is the exception. Sure some guys will lose their tempers, but this 22 yr. old hot head seems to think he's a pretty big deal.

We must live in very,very different worlds. I'm happy that in my world that behavior is more rare than rare.

zm1283 Fri May 25, 2012 09:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 843319)
I guess my point was that he'd maybe be a little calmer considering the last time...especially b/c he really looks like even more of an idiot b/c he was 100% wrong for throwing the fit (arguing something that he clearly lost because he was wrong)....he reminds me of that idiot from U of South Carolina who faked getting beaned and took it so far that he got ejected only to have the video remain on You Tube for eternity.

Arkansas, not South Carolina. It was Brian Walker.

He made it as high as AA a few years ago. I was at a game and looked up and he was standing in the on-deck circle.

johnnyg08 Fri May 25, 2012 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 843367)
Arkansas, not South Carolina. It was Brian Walker.

Thanks for the correction. I'll leave his name up there.

voiceoflg Fri May 25, 2012 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 843367)
Arkansas, not South Carolina. It was Brian Walker.

He made it as high as AA a few years ago. I was at a game and looked up and he was standing in the on-deck circle.

He is now coaching.

:rolleyes:

jwwashburn Fri May 25, 2012 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GROUPthink (Post 843332)
Since when is it a player's role to jaw at the umpire?

Have you ever watched a Major League game?

What this player did on this play is acceptable in a Major League game.

What this player did when he spiked his helmet last week or whenever that was is completely unacceptable-that is why he was ejected and suspended.


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