BR retreats towards home plate. Legal?

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by newump

Ground ball up the first base line. F3 fields ball near line. As batter runner approaches F3, BR begins to retreat a couple of steps towards home to avoid the tag. * Is BR out if he backs up like this? * Or can he retreat all the way to home?
NCAA rule citation if possible.

Why would the BR retreat all the way to home?

Rule 8 SECTION 1.
b. A base runner having acquired legal title to a base cannot run bases in reverse order to either confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game. A runner violating this rule is out.

Okay I gave you an answer.... so tell me the truth, this wasn't a serious question was it?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Justme561

Why would the BR retreat all the way to home?

Rule 8 SECTION 1.
b. A base runnerhaving acquired legal title to a basecannot run bases in reverse order to either confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game. A runner violating this rule is out.

Okay I gave you an answer.... so tell me the truth, this wasn't a serious question was it?

In the OP the batter/runner not has acquired legal title to a base.

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

In the OP the batter/runner not has acquired legal title to a base.

I answered the 'what if' part of the OP where the BR retreats back to HP.

You're right, I should of added:

NCAA 7-11p:
A.R. 3—On a tag play between home plate and first base, a batter-runner may retreat toward home plate to evade a tag, but shall be declared out after touching or passing home plate, or leaving the base line. The ball remains live.

But my question about it being a serious question still stands. If you don't know the answer to the OP then maybe you shouldn't be out there officiating.

[Dave Reed]

NCAA 7-11p:
A.R. 3—On a tag play between home plate and first base, a batter-runner may retreat toward home plate to evade a tag, but shall be declared out after touching or passing home plate, or leaving the base line. The ball remains live.
Therefore, a runner can back up to just before he would touch home plate.

newump,
You can download the NCAA rules for free. Then, in this case, a simple search on "retreat" brings up the answer.

Some advice: When an ostensible umpire tries to rationalize a ruling based on "travesty of the game", and it doesn't involve an intervening pitch between the runner's advance to the next base and a subsequent return to a previous base, treat all of his comments as suspect.

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

NCAA 7-11p:
[i]Some advice: When an ostensible umpire tries to rationalize a ruling based on "travesty of the game", and it doesn't involve an intervening pitch between the runner's advance to the next base and a subsequent return to a previous base, treat all of his comments as suspect.

Ostensible... I know that I should look that word up but I think I know it's meaning. It means pretend right? I like that word

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by Justme561

Why would the BR retreat all the way to home?

Rule 8 SECTION 1.
b. A base runner having acquired legal title to a base cannot run bases in reverse order to either confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game. A runner violating this rule is out.

Okay I gave you an answer.... so tell me the truth, this wasn't a serious question was it?

If you're going to be snarky, at least try to get the appropriate rule citation correct

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

If you're going to be snarky, at least try to get the appropriate rule citation correct

I had to look 'snarky' up in the Urban Dictionary but I've got it now. It means short tempered or irritable. I think I like that word too

[mbyron]

This question comes up periodically from umpires who work softball. Apparently retreating even a step toward HP is a violation in that activity.

[rbmartin]

In any level of baseball I am aware of the B/R may (provided he has not already aquired 1st base) retreat until reaching home plate.

In FED softball they may stop but not retreat. Immediate dead ball if they do.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Justme561

Why would the BR retreat all the way to home?

Rule 8 SECTION 1.
b. A base runner having acquired legal title to a base cannot run bases in reverse order to either confuse the fielders or make a travesty of the game. A runner violating this rule is out.

Okay I gave you an answer.... so tell me the truth, this wasn't a serious question was it?

You gave an irrelevant answer. What does avoiding a tag have to do with making a travesty of the game. I wish people would just ignore this rule - it NEVER happens, and umpires misuse this rule every time they trot it out.

A BR might be retreating to prevent a quick tag and allow other runners to advance. Illegal in some softball codes. Legal in most baseball. Admit I'm not positive on NCAA, but suspect it's legal.

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You gave an irrelevant answer. What does avoiding a tag have to do with making a travesty of the game.

Wow! Thanks. I had already admitted that I should have referenced another rule..... Stay sharp!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Justme561

Why would the BR retreat all the way to home?

?

Buy time for other runners if the fielder's stupid enough to chase after him.

Hope the fielder trips and/or drops the ball during the effort so he can then get to 1B.

If you don't know why players do things maybe you don't understand the game well enough and shouldn't be umpiring.

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Buy time for other runners if the fielder's stupid enough to chase after him.

Hope the fielder trips and/or drops the ball during the effort so he can then get to 1B.

If you don't know why players do things maybe you don't understand the game well enough and shouldn't be umpiring.

I guess I haven't done enough 'baby ball' where things like this happen. Run all the way back to HP hoping that the fielder will fall down? Did you coach your players to do that? Hopefully the opposing coach taught his fielders to throw the ball to 1B when the BR ran toward HP. I admit it Rich, I do not understand that strategy. But maybe some day I will so that I can be as good of an umpire as you think you are.

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by Justme561

I guess I haven't done enough 'baby ball' where things like this happen. Run all the way back to HP hoping that the fielder will fall down? Did you coach your players to do that? Hopefully the opposing coach taught his fielders to throw the ball to 1B when the BR ran toward HP. I admit it Rich, I do not understand that strategy. But maybe some day I will so that I can be as good of an umpire as you think you are.

Justme, you are obviously in un-familiar territory calling out Rich, MB, and the likes.

Since you are new to this board, I would recommend staying back a bit and let the more experienced guys post responses until you learn who is who.

Otherwise, you will put yourself in a corner where relevance to the price of tea in china is even more meaningless than it is already.

Higgy

[Justme561]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Justme, you are obviously in un-familiar territory calling out Rich, MB, and the likes.

Since you are new to this board, I would recommend staying back a bit and let the more experienced guys post responses until you learn who is who.

Otherwise, you will put yourself in a corner where relevance to the price of tea in china is even more meaningless than it is already.

Higgy

Higgy, I thank you for you kind words of concern.

I know who Rich is and respect his knowledge base BUT I reserve the right to disagree with him or to make comments in response to unnecessary statements about whether or not I should umpiring.

I can certainly take constructive criticism without having my feelings hurt, in fact I am so secure with myself that even the nonconstructive criticism doesn't hurt my feelings. But like I said before I will comment when I feel a comment is necessary....

I bet that Rich and MB (I admit I do not know who he is) are not too devastated over my comments. Like me they probably demonstrate their abilities daily on the baseball field whether doing 12 yo's or college games (and that's the only place it matters). Regardless of the disagreements I have with others on this board or how they feel toward me I rest secure knowing that tomorrow the sun will shine and my dog will still love me.

Okay end of sermon, time to pass the offering plate around..... Peace