Brett Lawrie throws helmet at Miller
 

Miller got off easy. Lawrie could have kneed him in the groin for those two lousy calls. 2nd one was definitely an FU call, which is pretty CS in reality. JMO YMMV LSMFT. Lawrie got a 4 game suspension for his shenanigans.

MLB.com Editor's Picks | TB@TOR: Lawrie ejected for arguing a strike call - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I don't care if the balls bounced in and were called strikes, he deserved 15 games for that.

I know we've debated it before, but I personally have no problem with an FU call in an MLB game.

The batter should be suspended(it is debatable if he hit the ump intentionally but, still it is inexcusable) and the fan should be arrested.

That being said: that strike three call was disgraceful.

An FU because a guy ran down to first on what he thought was an obvious ball four?

An FU when the guy came back and did not argue nor did he appear to do anything?

That umpire is bush league.

Yeah! Knee him, hell...should have taken a bat to his knees. All umpire should be able to physically umpires when they don't agree with their calls. Nothing will improve umpiring like putting a couple of those bas-tards in the hospital.

You go, Steve!

Boys will be boys.

This comment is more unacceptable than Miller's two calls

I think he was joking.

LSMFT?? Liposclerosing Myxofibrous Tumor ?

Not by much. Brutal. I didn't say he "should" I said he "could" have. He's lucky the batter didn't do that. Bush league is too kind.

Either I'm way too old, or you're way too young...Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco.

LOL if you think he was throwing the helmet at the umpire.

4 games is right because they know he will appeal and it'll get bumped to 3. They're also telling their employees to not FU t-ball calls so late in the game.

How is an FU call not placing yourself ahead of the game?

My thought exactly!

OOO

And when the helmet hit him, he reacted like he got hit by a bus. It looked like he called the guy who threw the drink on him a f'n a hole. I woulda told him the reason I threw it is because You're a f'n a hole.

I wonder if Miller really thought those were strikes? If so, I expect we may be doing a game together in the near future:rolleyes:

Never seen such Behavior?
 

Laurie needs anger management counseling along w/ the four game suspension. We are not going to discuss balls and strikes. I have seen worse calls this year.

Hey batter, batter swing! Would not defend his actions if I could.

Placing the umpire above the game? Was there a previous incident or two to confirm the umpire's inappropriate behavior or did he happen to be the guy to trip over Laurie's helmet? Perhaps he shouldn't have been standing there.

Lawrie was lucky the helmet didn't bounce higher and hit Miller in the face. I'd be curious to see if the suspension would have been longer if the two pitches had been in the strike zone.

Loved reading the managers comments on ESPN how he went to great lengths to say that he doesn't think the umpire would make a call just because the player showed him up on the pitch before.

LOL - trying to keep from getting a fine or he just don't understand umpires at MLB level.

I do like what one of the ESPN guys said though, "if he doesn't respect the umpires, then he can't expect the umpire to respect him."

That's great commentary.

Thanks
David

4 games is a travesty. This is a felony in most states.

That said, while I have no problem with the FU call when warranted, I feel it was nowhere near warranted in this case.

Do you know the whole story? Not saying I do, but there might be more to it. If not, then I'd agree it's a little much.

Pitch f/x says the pitch was borderline (although I think it would easily be called "high" in college/adult games I work locally).

I think it's a huge assumption that this was an FU call.

Where, in a LL Minors game?

A felony for throwing a helmet on the ground? In what states would this be a felony? Remind me not to travel through them.:confused:

I think Miller would have called strike 3 even if the ball had been higher and farther outside than it already was. That wasn't even a Senior LL strike, which has to be the biggest zone out there.

Jr LL is even bigger. For some, this is their first experience with a 60' 6" distance.

Yeah, forgot about that monstrosity.:)

Yes, that's where he was throwing it ... the ground. OK.:rolleyes:

Did you actually see the Pitch F/X chart? Pitch 5 was clearly outside, but look at pitch 6. Doesn't look *that* high to me based on where MLB sets the strike zone and how they evaluate umpires.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/...ype=1&s_type=3

U beat me to it steve.
 

No, I just saw the pitch from knowing what is and isn't a strike from many years of calling balls and strikes, many more balls and strikes than Miller has EVER called.

Okay then, in what state would throwing a helmet at an umpire be a felony? What's the charge? Assault with intent to make a boo-boo?

I am not excusing moron Lawrie for throwing the helmet folks, but the call was clearly sent as an FU, and was the catalyst for the tirade. Not an excuse for it, but the reason behind it.

If Miller would get a real strike zone, because according the sainted F/X charts, he misses a lot of pitches, it may help.

Really? That was a FU call if I ever saw one! That pitch was going to be a strike no matter where it was (unless it bounced on the ground).

The chart must be based on the rulebook strikezone. Pitch 6 was not borderline.

Judging from his subsequent post, he isn't. He seems to believe that umpire calls justify physical attacks by players. He is either to emotionally involved or SAUmp and Steve Tyler have been right all this time.

Too bad. I used to respect him.

"I am not excusing moron Lawrie for throwing the helmet folks, but the call was clearly sent as an FU, and was the catalyst for the tirade. Not an excuse for it, but the reason behind it. " Did you not see this or ignore it?

Oh, I'm sorry. Does that post cancel out his justifying the act in post 1? Or, 9, 20 or ..........or........

You are not very bright, are you?

He was joking.

Ignoring your habit of name calling, let's look at your statement. You provided him that out earlier and he didn't take it. Instead he continued to justify the attack by blaming the umpire.

Even if the post you quoted, he places the blame on the umpire.

You may agree with his parsing of language, but anyone who does not fault the agressor for his actions is truly the one who is not very bright. There is never a justification for violence visited upon an official. It's that simple.

I did not call you a name.

If I leave a plasma screen tv on my porch and go out to a fish fry, I have taken an action that might very well cause the tv to be stolen. A person that steals that TV is still a bad guy who should be punished.

That is an analogy.

An inaccurate one at that.

I'll use slower key strokes this time. There was no action by the umpire that can be used, in any way, to justify or explain away the actions of the players. He owns them. He initiated them. To try to put any responsibility on the umpire is to display a tremendous misunderstanding of personal accountability.

The umpire did not create an attractive nuisance. He did not leave his door unlocked. He did not leave a window open, he did not leave a TV on the porch. He was doing his job. Thankfully, MLB understands the danger of allowing a player ANY excuse, reason, rationale or justification for making contact with an umpire.

So you are saying that if I threw an object at the ground and hit a person, that would be legal? I am not so sure that is what you mean, but you have to know that is not the case. Better yet, what if a man did that to a woman, would we say that that was OK too?

Peace

He was not doing his job when he called strike 3 on ball 4 and did so on purpose.

This is why the batter went nuts. That is a reason, not an excuse. The umpire created the situation...the batter reacted in a completely inappropriate manner and should certainly be sanctioned for his inexcusable action.

Of course, the umpire should be sanctioned, as well. I also think it should be a public act.

He should be sanctioned for a missed pitch? Really???:rolleyes:

Peace

I'm sorry. I deal with reality and facts not suppositions.

It's okay to disagree. You can believe that umpires are subject to violence as a direct result of their calls.

I don't. Thankfully, MLB doesn't.

Enjoy your evening. Moving on, now.

Exactly, Jeff. But only after being physically attacked. After all, he started it.:rolleyes:

What cracks me up is do these people realize that if they missed a call, they would be rather upset if they were suspended over one missed call? We have technology that shows these things (and they have been proven to not be accurate as well) to show these things. But when many famous MLB Pitchers were in the game, no one hardly said a word if that pitcher go that pitch called a strike. I just do not get this self-righteousness over something that I am sure if we all had our game broken down that way, we would have at least one pitch no in that little computer zone.

Peace

How nice. You're experience of calling amateur baseball should be compared to the experience of a MLB umpire who has years in the major leagues plus a ton of other professional experience.

Go back on your meds.

I'm glad you're in Miller's head.

Hmmmmmm, I smell a little bromance in the air..................:rolleyes:

I said what I said. I did not say what you said I believe.

The batter was completely wrong and should be suspended. The fact that the batter's actions were completely wrong does not negate the fact that the umpire's action set up the situation.

If I missed pitches that badly, I wouldn't be doing high school or college games. Why MLB allows that, I have no clue. These umpires need to be held to a higher standard. Disgraceful !!!

Does your HS/college group have a union?

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'd like to work with a wise man such as yourself, assuming you could carry me !!! :D:D:D

Give me a break. If you did not call the 5th pitch a strike at some point, your games will take much longer at the HS level I can guarantee you that one. That might be the closest you would get in many HS games to the outside corner.

Peace

I will give the pitcher the corner. I will not give a pitcher 5 - 6 inches off the plate. It sounds like you're a good, quality official who works at a high level. I'm guessing that you don't either.

I have never had a game with a computer tracking my calls either. And that pitch by all accounts was what gets called at the HS and college levels all the time. Half the time in HS if a pitcher can get the ball around the plate you call as many strikes as you can. Let us not get ridiculous and think that we are so good or have so much talent that we would not call that pitch a strike under the right circumstances. If you do, then you are lying to yourself and your ability. Even with my ability, whatever that might be, I still have to do what I can to call strikes or my games will never end.

Peace

Jrutledge, you actually do not think it was likely that the umpire did an FU on that pitch? Of course, none of us know for sure...but, come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

Jwash,

I did not comment on what the umpire did or did not do. I am commenting only on the actions and I do not care what the umpire did, that did not justify his actions to throw a helmet. Would have been OK for the umpire to punch him in his grill? And unlike some I cannot get into guys heads and know why they do anything unless they tell me or comment on the issue. I have not heard from the umpire or even seen other pitches in that game. I love how guys want to complain about someone, but only show part of the story and then we have to accept your version of what happened.

Peace

Love how that chart shows pitches coming in at a pinpoint. Let's ignore that the ball has width. Let's also ignore that the ball is not moving on a straight line perferctly parallel to the ground. Let's even further draw a line at the top that is identical for every batter.
That chart isn't worth the kB required to create it.

LAWS ON ASSAULT OF A SPORTS OFFICIAL

LAWS ON ASSAULT OF A SPORTS OFFICIAL

By: Christopher Reinhart, Senior Attorney

You asked how many other states have specific crimes regarding assault of a sports official.

SUMMARY

We found 18 states with criminal laws regarding assault of a sports official. These states are: Alabama, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas, and West Virginia.

These laws provide specific penalties either by creating a new crime or raising the penalty for one or more existing crimes when they are committed against a sports official. The laws vary in terms of what officials are covered and what levels of sports activities are covered. Some of these laws also cover coaches and other participants but we have not included that information in this report.

In addition to these criminal provisions, two states have civil statutes. Minnesota authorizes the Minnesota State High School League or a school board to ban someone from attending interscholastic activity for up to 12 months for assaulting a sports official. Oregon has a provision for liquidated damages of $500 to $1,000, in addition to any other damages, in civil cases for injuries suffered by a sports official.

Cheater. :D

The interesting (that is, head-scratching) thing about MN is that the MSHSL can ban anyone that has assaulted an official, except for a head varsity coach--only the school board can ban them.

That, to me, is bass-ackwards at a minimum--I'd want a non-interested party making disciplinary decisions of the one person at a contest who is the most responsible for conduct.

Even at the college level (I only work small college), I aggressively call strikes. I work with some umpires who call coffee can-sized zones (pitches outside corner called balls and forget about the ones at the hollow of the knee -- too much work to get those) and those are the 3+ hour games where everyone gets pissy and the gripes start out low with a gradual crescendo.

Do I go into the other batter's box? Hell, no. But a pitch just off the corner is going to be a strike all day. Inside and outside. Both ways. If you bought coaches a beer and asked them about it, they'd tell you they would rather have an umpire call strikes from the first pitch, I'm sure. I know one or two have said that to me away from the field.

Hey even rookies need to get dirty and show a little respect once in a while. I have had that situation and the batter at any good level of ball will always come back and say,"Hey Blue, sorry I wasn't trying to show you up",

Not the rookie.

Very nice FU call, Mr Miller.

You do not have to buy them a beer to figure out that coaches do not want to be out there more than we have to be. As long as you call strikes for both teams I have found that coaches get upset with their players watching close pitches. I have even had coaches say to their batters, "He has been calling strikes all game, swing the damn bat." I have rarely had a coach complain at any college level when I called strikes and I have worked D1 before too. It is when I did not call a strike they get upset (even if it is clearly outside, but that is another issue).

Peace

I never pitched any higher than DIII, but I could throw the ball in the strike zone from the time I was 8 years old. On the other hand... I did place it as far out of the zone as the ump would chase. :cool:

Actually, most coaches will buy the first round. I always get the second. Baseball people are good people to be around for the most part.

You're dead on about calling strikes, though. Makes me shake my head when umpires have a small zone and both teams complain.

I've never had a beer with a coach, but there are a few I would like to have one with. Then bust the freakin' bottle over their head.

Lmao

You caught me by surprise on that one!

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

Never once justified the act. Pointed it out in OP. Not once did I say that Miller deserved getting a helmet fired at his feet. I did say that it would not constitute a felony, by any stretch of the imagination. I also said in post 1 that he COULD have gotten kicked in the nads, not that he SHOULD have. Gotta read with what is known as discernment. I think Lawrie deserved his suspension, at the very least. But don't try to sell it that Miller didn't instigate it, because that's just BS.

Absolutely.

I do not care how long my games take. If I did, I would officiate games which are timed. Do some coaches b!tch about my zone? Sure. Usually the ones with pitchers who can't throw strikes. I get at least two games a year in which my strike zone improves radically mid-game--right after a pitching change is made.

At the HS varsity and above, I make them hit the plate. My vertical zone is bigger than most because I DO call the hollow below the knee, and I DO call top of the abdomen.

Many batters work hard to develop a discriminating eye at the plate. They don't deserve to be screwed because pitchers can't throw strikes and umpires see a quick game as some sort of faux badge of honor.

My goal every game is to be neither aggressive nor passive in calling strikes. Contrary to what they teach at clinics at every level, I've never bought into the philosophy that coming up with the right arm on close pitches out of the zone is something to be proud of.

I think it's time that MLB starts suspending umpires for this type of behavior. If they don't recognize "intent" for a thrown helmet, they shouldn't recognize "intent" for obvious vendeta calls like this! :mad:

How exactly is this obvious? The pitch *just missed* the book strike zone.

Like has already been stated by someone else, he would have called that pitch a strike no matter where it was if it didn't bounce up there. It was pretty clear he was sending a message to the rookie, "Here's what you get for showing me up." It was an FU call any way you slice it.

I think there's no question this was an FU call... but I think GT's comment is valid if only in the sense that it would be wrong for MLB to suspend or otherwise penalize an umpire on this particular FU call, given that the ball was damn close to a book-strike.

Question ... I think most pitchers would be expecting the FU call on this pitch --- anyone else think he threw it too close to the zone?

Swing the damn bat and you will not have to worry about an FU call. The last damn pitch was right there. We only are saying anything about this really is because there is some "evidence" (and I use that loosely) of where the pitch was by some computer generated system. I thought when I saw the pitch that is one you have to swing at if you do not want to be called out. And a rookie needs to learn that lesson if not for this situation, but other situations. You cannot watch a close pitch and hope you will not get struck out. You have to fight off pitches until you get the one you want or you can handle.

Peace

I've never intentionally called that pitch a strike at any level above Jr./Sr. Little League. Not even in Frosh or JV would I call a pitch that high in the zone a strike. I guess it's all that good old NL training, but I've always favored the low pitch. This one looked to be letter high, which is where the vertical limit used to be, but is no longer. The mid-point between the belt and the letters is a good 3 or 4 inches lower than this pitch. I stand by my comment that Miller would have called a strike even if it were higher than the one he called.

As I said before, I call close pitches a strike anytime I can at any level. I just try to be consistent with them. Unlike the MLBers I do not have a computer telling me I am right or wrong. I want batters to swing and if a batter did what this guy did, I would have called a close pitch a strike too. Not so much of an FU pitch, but at least stay there for me to make the call. I would do the same if a batter bails out on a pitch that clearly is close. It would not be so much of an FU call, but you should not be assuming I am going to call a ball when it is close. Swing the damn bat and you will not have to worry about what I call.

Peace