When has a batter given himself up?
 

Home team at bat, bottom of 6, 2 outs and R3. Full count on B1. Pitch comes in batter swings and misses, catcher drops ball. B1 starts walking toward his 3rd base side dugout and gets 4 to 5 steps out of box. 3rd base coach is going crazy telling him to run to 1st. B1 then starts to 1st. I call B1 out and say the game is over because B1 had not attempted to run. Obviously coach is not happy and said I called the play to quick. When is the batter considered out in this situation when not attempting to run?
Oh yeah all of this in a 9u game being umpired by just yours truly. Fun times.

OBR: BR out when he leaves the dirt circle/vicinity of the plate.

FED: BR out when he enters the dugout.

9U: don't lose any sleep on this call.

What does the rule book tell you when you looked it up?

If it's Little League, it's when he enters the dugout (or DBT).

Ditch "vicinity" - it's when he leaves the dirt circle. Saying "vicinity" validates the call in question and allows a discression not intended by rule.

GROUPthink is correct in LL rules.

In many 9-under games, the field is ALL dirt, which is probably why the "vicinity" clause is in the rule.

What if it's an all dirt infield? Then it's umpire judgement as to where the "vicinity" of the circle would be.

Ex: legion ball using OBR rules.

I added the word 'vicinity', precisely to address the situation you mention.

For those who dislike it, substitute "10-13 feet from the plate."

You had to beat me to it by a second:cool:

The reason Little League has cited for *not* moving to this is the inconsistency of the size of circles at fields used all over the country.

I had a HS player take one step towards his dugout and the other coach was all over us saying "He gave himself up!" Wrong rule set, wrong application. The coach was 0-for-2.

"Vicinity" is not in the rule.

Rule 6.09(b) Comment: A batter who does not realize his situation on a third strike not caught, and who is not in the process of running to first base, shall be declared out once he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate.

If there's no grass then you can envision where it would be, but if you do so be consistent. Might even be worth scribing one at the start of the game.

No way, Jose! :D

We don't have enough to do, now we line the field too?

Heck, I erase lines before the game starts. Dang white chalk from the catchers box always seems to get in my eyes and all over my clean shoes;)

30 seconds scribibg a line versus a potential argument (or more) later on ("You let the other guy get farther from the plate and didn't call him out")? Priceless.

I've had games where they didn't even chalk the foul lines!

Let someone come out and argue a fair/foul call, go head, I dare you!:D

YGTBSM!!!:rolleyes:

I know you can't get this concept because all the fields where you live are pristine pastures of grassy splendor, but in many areas, 9 out of 10 fields are all dirt infields, or else just the infield itself is grass, but not the surrounding areas. Like California, for example. Nobody is going to "scribe" a circle around the plate area. Are you serious? These people can't be bothered to draw batters boxes or foul lines half the time, and you want a scribed circle? I guess we could draw it with a bat, since the chalk roller is usually locked up somewhere and not accessible.

How does this differ from all of the other (much more common) - "you called that pitch for them, call it for us" - type arguments? You going to set up some lasers to make the strike zone in the air for them now? I think we all know how to handle, "You let the other guy get farther..." nonsense just fine.

What if it is not locked up? Where did you get your stats about 9 out 10 fields? How do you know all the fields where Rich lives are pristine pastures of grassy splendor? Are you related to Doug Eddings?

I don't think I have ever seen a batter walk off casually who was not tagged by the catcher.

And 9U leagues (and LL) allow batters to run to 1b when 3rd strike not caught? Thought that started when runners allowed to lead off.

Great point DG!

Missed that +1

Majors (12 year olds) in LL now allow runners to advance on uncaught third strikes (usual caveats). Optional in the regular season, mandatory during tournaments.

PERFECT response.

I agree... but then again, I said that once and was ripped for being too hard on a new guy. "Why can't you just answer the question ..." yada yada.

In order: Still not doing it. Estimated by knowledge of fields in my own area. Rich once posted that all fields are grass infield, outfield, foul territory where he lives and they don't have all dirt fields at all. No.

In order: You were being facetious toward Rich. 'Nuff said.

I once coached in a league that had 4 fields at the same site, 3 of the 4 had dirt infields. The league had 9-10 and 11-12 divisions. Around these parts I have to say that these fields were the exception, more typically infields are dirt most everywhere.

Dirt circle is about 13' in ML size fields. Since 60 bases are about 2/3 the size of ML fields the dirt circle should be about 9', and where there is no grass, as an umpire we should be able to judge when a batter has given up without the need for a circle.

But again, it should only apply in leagues where runners can lead off bases, typically not done on 60' bases.

I just did a 10U game last weekend, 60' bases, 6 innings, leadoffs, balks, etc. Whatever works for them I guess. (One team stole almost every pitch, the other team stole like twice. One's in a league that allows steals, one is in a league that doesn't!)

This is judgment if there's not a circle there.

Call junior out. Nice time the next 9 year old Ken Griffey Jr. strikes out, he'll learn the situations where he should run.