Fake Tag = Ejection
 

My real "job" is teaching. Today I ran into the baseball coach from the school district where I teach. Naturally the conversation turned to baseball and he commented that his team will be short handed at a tournament tomorrow because of the ejection of his best hitter/shortstop.

Apparently during the first game of their double header last night the player initiated a fake tag at second base. The field umpire immediately ejected him, which disqualifies him from all the remaining games of that day and the next scheduled day of play (which is a tournament on Saturday). The coach admitted that he knew that a fake tag was not legal in Fed ball but never passed this information on to his players. The player was shocked and confused to why he was ejected, and the coach just accepted the ruling and sent the kid packing. To clarify, this was the FIRST fake tag this kid had attempted all season.

Now to the guts of this posting...this kid had to miss the remainder of the first game and the second game last night, plus the entire day of the tournament tomorrow - because the umpire didn't know/follow the book? What should have happened was a plain old obstruction call and a warning. No "ejection" was warranted unless it happened again!

If you were me, would you tell the coach? Email the AD? Contact the state? I don't know this kid from Adam, so I have no vested interest in it at all. I also have no clue who the umpire was so contacting the local association (if he even belongs to it) is probably going to do no good. I'd just hate to see any player have to sit out 3+ games because an umpire didn't know the rules! :mad:

Absolutely contact the AD and the state. In most states, umpires have to fill out ejection reports. If his just says, "ejected for applying a fake tag", the kid may get to play tomorrow.

You would hope that when the state receives the ejection report they would ask questions and if it was as described advise the AD that the player can play. But here, you have 48 hours to file a report, most do it immediately, but that might not happen. And here, that particular ejection would be considered a restriction to the bench for that game only. Ejections that have more serious penalties are for more serious things, a list of 7. Fighting for example, is one of the 7.

Update - I did contact the AD who forwarded my email to the head of baseball in the state to see if it would change anything. He got almost an instant call back and was told that the MHSAA doesn't want to get into "reviewing ejections of players" and that since the kid was ejected, he must serve the entire suspension.

I'm willing to bet that this kid never tries a fake tag again!

I wonder why a fake tag wouldn't get you run in a FED game. It certainly might in an OBR based game, as it is considered UC.

Odd.

Poor officiating. He probably needs to read Carl's book on how to ruin a good baseball game ...

There are rules, obstruction and safety etc., but sometimes you just have to be an umpire also. Especially if you know the state has such strict rules regarding ejections.

Thanks
David

While I agree that in some cases an ejectionable offense can be disregarded, I will never use the state's suspension rules as a basis on whether I'm doing it or not.

I understand state associations backing up their officials, but that's ridiculous. The correct answer is: "We'll review the ejection report and take appropriate action."

And then take appropriate action. How sad.

What are you smoking?

And then they have to review EVERY ejection. They aren't going to set the precedent of having to take the extra step to evaluate whether an ejection should be reviewed or not. Sucks for the kid, but I see their point.

So is there an official rule on the steps to take?

If it says warn then eject and warn was skipped then protest the rule misapplication.

Too late for a protest. I think it needs to be protested before the next play, but definately by EOG.

Nonsense. As an administrator I can distinguish between a bona fide objection from one of my officials and the whining of parents and coaches.

I understand that, but then they have every Tom, Dick and Harry asking for their ejections to be reviewed. They don't have time to sort through all of that.

I wonder what the point is of sending in ejection reports if they are not going to be reviewed.

wtf?

In most youth and amateur adult baseball leagues that are OBR based, fake tags are not allowed and considered unsportsmanlike conduct.

In LL it's just obstruction, not UC and not an ejection.

I'll check on a few others where I can reach the rules.

Searched on fake, tag, fake tag

Dixie - no prohibition for fake tag

USSSA - no prohibition for fake tag

PONY - no prohibition for fake tag

They are in some places simply sent in to create a paper trail to make sure that ejected parties comply with any suspension requirements, and that they have the documentation to back up said suspension if ever challenged in court. Ie #23 ejected from contest in a state where there is an automatic one game suspension. If an official does not file a special report the state association doesnt have a leg to stand on in enforcing said suspension, and if they did #23 parents takes the state to court and say prove my little johnny was ejected no report no proof.

Before we all go off the deep end here. First not one of us has seen the MichiganHSAA Officials Report that was filed so none of us know what the Game Official reported. Second, yes a Fake Tag is Obstruction per NFHS Rules, but since none of us saw the play maybe there is more to the story than we know. Maybe the Fielder committed some other Unsportsmanlike act while applying the Fake Tag.

MTD, Sr.

Unsportsmanlike conduct is a judgement call. Always has been. Sure, we have certain things we toss for without hesitation, but many of those aren't in any book, either.

I'm not saying a fake tag is an automatic EJ, far from it. More like a warn and eject, in most cases. But it's on the table, depending on the situation.

If, in the OP's sitation, the umpire said that fake tags are an automatic ejection, that's certainly grounds to revisit the EJ. If not, it's a judgement call, and I can't see it being reviewable.

I prefer the Puros Indios Especial Pyramid #1 Maduro.

But this was should not something a player should be ejected over.

If I know that a state has a three game suspension following an ejection, then I'm going to as a good official make certain that the player earned the ejection.

I'm not going to eject over something that is frivolous or suspect in the rules.

Malicious contact, or other offenses, they will get an ejection every time. I think a read a story last week where a player was ejected over a necklace.

Then he gets suspended three games? That should not happen.

Now for fighting and other offenses, that's a whole different story.

Thanks
David

I think its Dixie Boys and Majors that puts this in the back of the book as an unsportsmanlike conduct situation, but NOT an ejection. You tell them to knock it off and move on.

Thanks
David

Perhaps Dixie has a different option for UC.

Look, I get this probably just in need of a warning, "don't do that again", etc. But we don't know what led up to it to the EJ. Maybe it was third time in the game he did it.

Interesting enough, my state does not allow or recognize protests either.

The MHSAA is way too busy to worry about whether ejections are rule-based.

After all, they have to check up on their tournament selections to make sure patches are properly worn, shoes are shined and uniform shirts are blue. Rules knowledge and good judgment are nice, but nowhere near as important as compliance with appearance requirements.

In LL and FED a fake tag is, by rule, obstruction. You need something more than the fake tag to elevate it to UC.

Notice I said "adult" in my post. Did you check out NABA? Or SDABL, the San Diego NABA league? Or MSBL? Fake tags are dangerous, cause people to injure themselves, and adult ballplayers have to go to work on Monday. Kids heal much quicker.

From SDABL rules:

DEFENSE PLAYER GUIDELINES (To Avoid Violating the No Collision Rule):

• Whether right at the base or home, or if you are up the line from any base or home---stay out of the runner’s way if you do not have possession of the ball or if you are not (obviously) about to receive it. If you are in the way, you will be guilty of Obstruction if there is contact with the runner or if the runner has to go around you to avoid a collision.

• If any Defensive Player, while not in possession of the ball or not about to receive it, purposely puts himself in the way of any runner at the last moment for the purpose of not only stopping the runner’s progress, but also in the “hopes” of having the umpire “blame” the runner for any stand-up collision that occurs, will be cited for violation of the No Collision Rule. The Defensive Player will be immediately ejected and may be subject to suspension upon investigation.

Forcing a player to slide by way of a fake tag, when there's no need to, would be unsportsmanlike in my book. How an umpire wants to deal with UC in dependant on each individual situation. (i.e. it's a judgement call). It can range from a "Hey, knock it off", to an EJ.

You won't find "warn and eject" in any rule book.

Good infielders can hold up runners by way of a fake catch and throw, as the ball goes by them. You see it all the time. If that forces a player to slow up, or even hit the deck, that's fine. What isn't fine is putting a glove down at the base, knowiingly, without the ball. Players at the upper levels get one in the ribs for doing this, and a word from the catcher. In a game played by kids, the umpires need to deal with it.

Maybe in the orginal situation, that player had been previously warned about doing this, and went ahead and did it again. The EJ report should reveal that, if there is one. I agree that if that report stated the sole reason the player was ejected was for the fake tag, that wouldn't fly. But, if it stated he was run for UC, there's no way to back out of that one.

Fed.

In LL I'm treating a fake tag as simple obstruction minus a RIM citation I'm not aware of. In Pony I'm deeming it legal.

+1

I like you Steve, I really do. But it's hasty and easily to disprove posts like this that get Mr. Tyler and SA excited. Slow down.

It would more advisable to use a rule book.

The original post concerned a play in Michigan, using NFHS rules.

According to NFHS 3-3-1b (Penalty): "At the end of playing action, the umpire shall issue a warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be ejected."

Plain enough for you?

Let me then amend the statement. It should be considered unsportsmanlike conduct in any amateur baseball league, because it can cause easily avoided unnecessary injuries, and the rules need to reflect it, although many do not.

Easy now, fellas. Some of us have day jobs, and don't do FED games. Sorry I missed that one.

I'm glad I no longer live in a place where HS games start at 3

The umpire should define what any UC ejection was for on the ejection report and not just list the reason as UC, which of course hides the fact that he tossed for fake tag on first offense.

More interesting information:

Apparently the ejecting official never filed a report.

Despite that, according to the MHSAA handbook there are no appeals of any ejections (even with misapplication of rules), no protests are allowed (even with misapplication of rules), and the player is still suspended for the remainder of the game - plus any other games that day as well as the next scheduled playing date (even if the official never files a report). The student ended up serving a total of 4 2/3 games suspension because the next playing date was a Saturday tournament...and the official never even filed a report!

When, if I ever do, start working leagues where the players wear Pull Ups or Depends, I might get excited. I will admit that was a soft statement from "Old Blood and Guts" though.

Look at the bright side FED 3-3-1b
 

No one broke their leg as a result of another fake tag during one of those games. :D

Well, maybe instead of expending so much energy on the legitimacy of the original EJ, you should be pursuing the idiotic post-EJ suspension rules that don't allow for multi-game tournament days. I've seen plenty of outrage expended over whether it's an EJ or not, yet no one's really commented on the stupidity of the rest of it.

Even if the EJ was something we all agree on, do we all think what turned out to be an automatic 4-game suspension is warranted? Unless he was swinging a bat around like he was Highlander, I'd suspect the answer is 'no.'

I suppose the answer you would get from the MHSAA is that they simply don't want to get involved. A ruling is a ruling. The policy is that if an ejection happens, for whatever reason, the ejected player or coach misses the remainder of games that day and the next scheduled date. That's been the policy for as long as I've been umping. Another reason I like the ability to restrict to the dugout when necessary.

Or maybe you would hear "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Coaches & players who know what the consequences are and still get ejected don't garner any sympathy from me.

+1

I do have a day job, and couldn't do any HS ball if they started in the mid-afternoon. In these parts, varsity starts anywhere from 6 to 7:30 pm.

I never think of after-game consequences to an ejection. If the player/coach doesn't want to get suspended for four games -- here's a thought -- don't get ejected in the first place.

Sure ... but what this kid (apparently) did didn't warrant the ejection in the first place. Hence the problem.

I agree, which was the entire point of the post.

If an umpire ejects a player in Michigan for their helmet falling off, or because they have a white glove, or even because their last name starts with a Z...there is nothing a player or school can do. There is no review process, there is no appeal - heck the umpire apparently doesn't even need to file a report, even though its supposed to be required! The kid misses games despite the reasoning. Unfortunately this is even the case when it comes to state tournament time.

This policy opens up a big can of worms, I know; and I don't know if I have all the answers. It gives an awful lot of "power" to an umpire to not only control one specific game, but potentially affect games in the future. It's a tough lesson learned for the kid, that's for sure!

Coaches and players that violate an ejectable rule should face the consequences without complaint. Its the ones that get ejected without just cause or merit that is up for discussion here.

With such irresponsible oversight by the state, I'm amazed anyone bothers undertaking the suspensions.

It sounds like the only recourse is a temporary injunction. Has that happened to your knowledge?

BTW-I've often wondered where the term can of worms came from. I suppose it came from catching and putting worms in a coffee can. Gotta love all those manure piles our neighboring farmer had on his place.

Temporary injunction? The MHSAA handbook clearly states:

"...protest is not allowed by the MHSAA when it is based on judgment decisions of officials or on misinterpretation or misapplication of playing rules."

"Pursuant to Item No. 2 of the Due Process Procedure (p. 19) and consistent with Interpretation 280, there is no appeal of a penalty that automatically results in a suspension either from the next day of competition or the
MHSAA tournament. Neither an ejection by an official nor the resulting suspension, either for the next day of competition or the entire MHSAA tournament, is reviewable by MHSAA staff, Executive Committee or Representative Council."

Nothing will be reviewed, nothing will be changed...for ANY reason - with or without a timely report from the umpire involved. Even if the umpire says in his report "I screwed up", the player's suspension stands. A court will not overturn it because everyone that plays as a MHSAA member has agreed to play under their rulings.

So what's to discuss then? Seems like everyone's agreed to these conditions.

True. I wonder what the MHSAA does, besides make up inequitable rules. They clearly can't be bothered to rectify simple errors.

I think you are right on track with this. Here are links which seem to confirm this:

World Wide Words: Can of worms

Where did the expression "You've opened a can of worms" come from? - Yahoo! Answers

What does It Mean to "Open a Can of Worms"?