I am a board member and caoch in our local youth baseball league. Our minors team had a double header on Saturday. After our first game had begun, I was pulled to the side and informed of a umpire/parent altercation one one of our other fields.

Apparently, one of our 16 year old base umpires, who had just arrived for a Majors game, noticed a catcher warming up the pitcher. He informed the catcher that he could not warm up the pitcher without wearing a catcher's helmet. (This is according to our league rules). A parent from the Majors game the BU was going to do came over and said something to the effect, You're pretty brave with a 9 year old, how would you do with somebody older?

The BU said that he was a league umpire and he was only enforcing a league rule and then walked away. The parent walked behind the BU and kept 'talking' about this. The BU had enough and told him to back off. The parent said 'I think I am going to go get my 15 year old son who's about the same size as you to kick your ***'. The BU responded, after I kick your son's *** I'm going to do you next'.

There's a lot more to the story than this, but I am giving you the shortened story that I pieced together from both party's involved as well as another player that witnessed the entire deal.

My first thought is to ban the parent for the rest of the season. The umpire was also in the wrong, so I feel compelled to suspend him for a number of games during our tournament.

What are your thoughts?

Where is PU?
 

Where were the adults in the situation?

If the young umpires was BU, where was PU?

That's the problem with young umpires.

When a bad situation arises, they might need the help of the adult etc.,

And also why both umpires should always walk on the field together.

As far as your local board etc., I would definitely suspend the parent, and I would probably recommend the young umpire be reassigned to another league or something.

Also, I would severely reprimand the young man. If he's going to umpire, he must have thick skin. But remember,
if he's umpiring that game, he does have rules to enforce which is what he was doing.

Our game would often be better without parents.


Thanks
David

The BU was just walking into our complex about 30 minutes before his game to get something to eat at the concession stand prior to his game. The catcher warming up the pitcher between fields. My prior post made it unclear that this incident happened away from the playing area. The BU noticed a potential safety issue and acted on it as he was walking in. Again, this wasn't even the league he was doing that day.

I will support my umpires 110%! However, he should have just walked away and talked to a board member about it first. I agree that he needs to have thicker skin.

Is it me or are parents getting worse this season?

I don't have a problem with a 16 year old umpire, BUT....he did act improperly after being provoked. I believe he now needs training, not suspension. Re-assignment might be good, but from description of incident, he was threatened he had a right to respond (not in like fashion though). Ban the parent, teach the kid. Called a tourney this weekend, game one--parent from opposing team threatened to whip a coach. Game two-- another parent (drunk fool) threatened to whip his kid's coach, barged onto field to remove child, and after I tossed him as kindly as possible,(sir, you must leave the park), he then threatened to whip my @#$, flipping me off as he was finally escorted out of park. IMO, those two should be banned for at least two years, and any further trouble after that would lead to a permanent ban. I understand the 16 year old's action, I really wanted to take a DeMarini to that last guy. At 16, I may have tried, at 45, I've learned better. Stay with the kid, reprimand the kid, teach the kid...He has just learned a valuable lesson!

In defense of the young guy. An adult is trying to bully him. This young man isn't a cop, just a teenager in a tough spot. I'd ban the adult for 1 full year for a physical threat.

Youth baseball is not the beer leagues.

[Edited by JimSmith on Jun 23rd, 2003 at 11:41 AM]

<ul><B>I don't have a problem with a 16 year old umpire, BUT....he did act improperly after being provoked. I believe he now needs training, not suspension.</ul></B>
The actions of the umpire, although meant to be in accordance with the rules, were not. He has NO AUTHORITY to enforce the rules until he enters the field as the official for that game. He umpires a game; he doesn't police a complex (unless the league has provided him that authority). His actions were out-of-line and he needs to better understand his position of authority.

Still, the expectations of a 16 year old umpiring youths should be taken into consideration when comparing it to the actions of the grown adult. While the umpire felt he was acting according to the rules, the adult was merely being abrasive to start the incident.

I agree that I'd not suspend this official, but that he needs further instruction.
The parent needs to be history to this league........if not permanently, at least for a period of time. Adults make errors also.


Just my opinion,

Freix

Hmm, I'm torn.

And we're having the same debate in my league as to the rules. I'd say for your dilemma, simply have a chat with the young man in question and help him understand that while the parent was definitely out of line, he also needs to remember that through his words and actions he represents the league, though he is not a league official - by which I mean a paid employee of the league, per se.

I know this all too well, having become a league official as second AUIC this year. In our town, the lead AUIC is also the assignor, and I'm going to wear that hat next year.

As for the parent, suspend him for the rest of the remaining season and possibly the next, and if he opens his mouth, tell him he's lucky that assault charges aren't being filed. Assault, while difficult to prove, shuts up even the most abrasive.

It's so much easier to give advice as we're both older; and after the fact.

For the next time then:
Advise the umpire(s) who do have the game that there's a catcher not appropriately protected. Then let them handle it.

Ignore the parent entirely . . . "You need to discuss that with Mr. Jones, Ma'am. I'd hate to see any kid smacked in the face with a bad throw; just trying to keep 'em safe."

A similar situation (not really) last week at MY field. Lightning. We suspended the game immediately; and waited. We then went to the next field to advise the PU what we're doing. "Hey, Blue. We're suspending our game because of lightning. It's up to you; but that's what we did on our field."

As the rains came (about 10-minutes later), MOST folks were appreciative. A couple of "whiners" told us it was none of our business; who cares?

Jerry

Freix,

At least in Little League, the umpire is a league representive, and their authority starts when they enter the property. And as far as pointing out a safety violations, it's everyone's duty to point these things out, whenever and wherever they take place. The dolt who questioned that request should be forced to umpire T-Ball games.

Kyle

Educate the umpire
 

The kid did absolutely right up until he threatened the parent. - Although his comment does qualify for the brass cajones category, in my book. Stupid, but pretty bold.

An umpire has, or at least should have, respect with ball players. If an umpire says "You need to get your mask on to warm up the pitcher." I expect the player to get his mask on. Period. And any player that's not trying to pick a fight will do so - even if it is 30 minutes before game time and in his own backyard. That is until some ignoramous parent comes along and decides the umpire's decisions are not to be respected. Make an example of the parent and his scofflaw attitude. I would ban him and make it known to the team that he has been banned for his actions. In my opinion this probably stretches the rules but children need to learn there are repercussions for inappropriate behaviour. [There are entirely too many No Fear bumper stickers in the world. I keep hoping that the natural laws of selection will put the No Fear bumper sticker man out of business but it hasn't happened yet. That's another story...]

Ban the parent and if the kid is reasonable (listens and learns - from the error of his brash defensive stance), keep him umpiring at the same or higher level. He understands an important facet of umpiring - you can't knuckle under to childish, threatening parents. For some of us, it takes many years to learn this lesson.
:)

If he already is of the No Fear mentality and shows no signs of learning, don't promote him; don't protect him; work him out of your system before he creates big problems by actually taking the next step and actually physically fighting with the stupid parent.

Just my opinion. :D

i don't agree with those that say the youngster needs a stiff "reprimand" from the league. bottom line being...he's a kid. not many 16 yo have developed a great deal socially and may not have kown any other way to react. he probably thought he was really going to have to fight that guy.

as for the parent...he's a joke and should NEVER be allowed back. to me, that is no question!!!! anyone that is so anxious to pick a fight, even with a kid, is a coward and should not be around our youth as any example at all!

some of us have spoken out that the kid, a mere child as an umpire in some of the most brutal fan conditions (younger ball), have thicker skin? c'mon, i think some of us have expected a little too much out of a kid that was in an unusual situation.

with the adult being the antagonist i would never fault a kid for trying to enforce a rule for the saftey of the kids. elementary i would think.

Personally, I have low tolerance for parents, coaches, and adults in general that do not have respect for the officials and for the participants in the game. (I'm referring to youth leagues.)

About 15 years ago, early in my umpiring career, I was BU for a championship game for 9-11 year olds. I called a "balk" on the pitcher; causing the winning run to score. The coach goes nuts!

Behind the backstop, were my two sons (aged 6 and 7)who came with me to the game (I was divorced at the time; and had "daddy duty".)

Immediately after the game, I went directly there to pick up my sons. The coach comes running into the area, yelling and ranting and raving all over again; but this time he starts yelling at my sons . . . "Your father is an a***hole! I'm gonna beat the cr*p out of him!" And kept it up until several parents FINALLY got him under control . . . all the while continuing to yell and scream.

Not only was this guy the coach, he was an officer in the league. And you probably guessed it, his son was the pitcher on whom I called the balk.

Should I or would I ever toss a parent or spectator before a game? YOU BETCHA, I would! In a heartbeat.

Thanks for all of the responses.

The board has decided to suspend the parent for the remainder of the season. The parent will be told that if there are any further altercations/situations regarding this particular parent, no matter how trivial, he will be banned permanently from all league activities.

The umpire will receive a verbal repremand from the President and the Umpire Chairperson. Additional instruction will be provided so that he may become a better umpire as a result of this situation. He knows he was provoked and that he did not deal with the situation as he should have. I think he will rebound well!

Silver,
I think it was a great response by all involved. The message . . . no matter what was done; right or wrong; we all need to conduct ourselves appropriately.

I'm taking a wild, wild guess. The umpire learned a whole lot more about the situation than the parent did.

Good luck on the rest of your career.

Jerry

16-year old umpire who may not know the rules as well as a major league umpire? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, especially when physically threatened by an adult. The adult (sic) should know better. I agree...1 year suspension for the adult. Subsequent problem means 1 year suspension for his kid.

what to do!
 

Freakishly enough, I read this post a day ago, and then last night IT HAPPENED! I had this 19yr old kid say "If you have something to say to me and my dad, lets say it in the parking lot!"

I personally am a small guy, but I got a big bite, so my partner and I told him: "IF you want to, its a 500 dollar fine, here is my jaw!"

(it really IS 500.00 a fine to threaten an umpire!)

Needless to say, they were stunned at what I said...and didn't pursue anymore. Though I had an 33" Black Magic in my back seat, and I was fully prepared.

1) I should have just walked off the field, but this team gives EVERYONE trouble, and has been warned several times

But, in regards to the situation in general, I wouldn't have said anything without my partner beside me. So unity is KEY!

2) The kid should be TOLD of what to do, but nothing should happen. I've seen a couple instances of the sort, and the best thing to do, is to stand your ground, and show that you are the authority figure WITHIN reason. Egging the parent on is NOT a good idea.

So essentially, suspend the parent, "talk" to the kid. However, depending on how STRONG his reaction to the parent was, you may have a loose cannon that is too hard to tame!

I ejected a coach one after the last out of the entire ball game. League commishoner told him he could stay in the tournament and could come back the next game (supposed to be one game suspension) The coach kept saying stuff about a play in the 3rd inning (when he should have been tossed) I warned him about his comments. PU warned him about his actions. He would mumble stuff and since i had no proof we couldnt do anything. He gave me a stare down at one time. While I had sunglasses on he probably thought i was looking where my glasses were pointed. I probably could have told him soemthing but i thought better of it. After the game me and the PU were walking to the fence to get our water bottles and pick up our bags from the dugout he said horrible job guys just horrible, thansk! I said no problem coach but your outta here! he got in my face. I was surpsingly calm for being a hot head at times. Kept telling him he needed to leave. Leauge wouldnt get behind me that day. Infact they pulled me from my next scheduled game (the same team.) I was felt like i got stiffed because I was 16.

Earlier in the year (basketball season) I had a coach tell me i didnt know how to call the game. This is after he'd been working me hard over putting 5 seconds back on the clock. I turned around and said they call me every week doing they? Ppl laughed he said yeah i dunno why cuz you suck. So i whacked him with a t. Felt bad about it and even apologized to him and the leauge before anyone really caught wind of it. I 'll admt parents are tough and its tough to not come back at some of the stuff tehy say. It really is.Its bad enough that we are young and feel like we have to gain extra respect. But to take abuse like that and not to be able to defend ourself is tough on the pride and tough on the mind. I've got a benefit of appearing older than I really am. I happen to know this coach from church so he knows how old I am. Of course I didnt realize he was a memebr of the church until I saw him sunday morning and told him hello shook his head and gave him a little wink. I'm glad my baseball season is over with. It was my frist and it was good with litttle to no problems. There were times were i was waiting for my game to start on another field and ppl had complaints about parents. I called the Commish he told me to get the PU to handle it or handle it myself so i'd have to the next field where t-ball game was going and umpire parents. LOL. MY UIC asked me to call a t-ball game with his daughter. He siad she'll umpire the players. I want you to fix the coaches and the paretns for these two teams who have a problem with parents. After 2 parents in 2 innings they got the point. I'm not afraid of adults I am really not. But yeah. I can understand the situation this umpire was in. I've had coaches on me at differnet times this year. Its tough to not come back to some of the stuff tehy say. It really is. But dont punish us because we're young. Ilike what most of these guys have been saying. Teach us from our mistakes. Most of the time we teach ourselves. But dont do what my league did and question my ethics, morals, and abilites because of an incident. Hell I called the league commishoners machine pitch games. He lost the first one and we had to play another one. I called both of them. Not once did anyone say I was favoring him because he was commishoner. But all of a sudden i toss a coach and you say he can come back and tell me I cant be impartial?

Sorry Im starting to rant more than I should.

JA

I forgot to add, I've been asked to get behind the plate next year in our AAA and Majors leauges.

be careful
 

Ace,

You're a young umpire, so always call with a veteran partner.

That's very very important. They should be able to mentor you and usually they have the respect of the coaches and players that you will have to earn with years of hard work.

Good luck

Thanks
David

The 16 year old umpire and his father did not complain one bit after our followup meeting. Actually, we decided to pull the umpire from 2 season ending games.

The parent on the other hand was a different story. I approached the parent with the head umpire and informed him of our decision. He had his little rant and rave session and we told him that he had 60 seconds to leave the playing area or we would call the police to have him escorted out. His wife came and escorted him out for us.

Thanks again.

I was the PU for a T-Ball championship game this past Saturday. They were two VERY competitive teams.

In the first inning I gave the Away team a TEAM warning after one of their players accidentally threw his bat into the backstop. Obviously this rule is in affect because it is a safety concern. Two batters later the same thing happened. I calmly walked onto the field, called the runner out at second and made all runners go back to there original bases. Not one peep out of the coaches. They knew the rules.

The Home team bats and the head coach tells the player to stand all the way back in the box and hit it to third base. Of course the player begins by placing his foot on the line. (Keep in mind that I borrowed the batters bat and redrew the box, because the chalk was dispersed when every single kid had to slide into home.) He pulls his right foot up and places it out of the box by a good 6-8 inches. I hated to do it but I called the kid out after he hit. The head coach comes at me from the outfield complaining that there's no way he could have been out of the box. (The HC is about 90 feet away! I guess he has terrific eyesight.) The HC's older son comes off of the spectator's bench, comes to the fence, and yells at me telling me that the only reason that I made that call was because of who I am. There's is no love loss between me and the HC and his son. At that point I concidered that a personal attack on me and my character. I told the gentleman, consider this your one warning and sit down. His only reponse was 'you are giving ME a warning?'

You would think a T-Ball game would be easy, but it's not. Why do we have parents like this in our leagues? I'm getting really tired of it and am almost ready to quit. I hate to do it because I know that 95% of the parents appreciate the 40+ hours a week that I volunteer to youth baseball. Do I just need to get thicker skin and live with these problem parents?

Umpire + T-Ball + Championship = nothing but trouble.

JMHO, but T-ball ..............aw nobody's gonna listen.

And players aren't out for throwing a bat, they're warned and ejected. Plus, how is it physically possible for a five year old to step completely out of the box and hit a ball set up on a tee in the middle of the plate? Shaq maybe.

[Edited by kylejt on Jun 30th, 2003 at 03:59 PM]

Sorry kylejt, but it's people like you that seem to cause the problems, ie. not knowing our league rules. Our league rules, yes OUR league rules, state that if a players throws a bat we give the team one warning. Throwing the bat can simply mean losing control of the bat after a swing. The bat hit the backstop....one warning was given.....the next time....it's an out. It's the same problem with the parents.......they just don't know the rules. (We post links to the rules on our website (.doc and .pdf)) The coaches are also provided with an official rulebook.

The batter's box is a 4 foot by 6 foot box on both sides of the plate. The box is 6 inches away from the plate. YES...a T-Ball player can certainly step out of the box when swinging the bat. If they start off by placing their foot on the edge of the box, all they have to do is go another 6 inches or so, then their foot is completely out of the box. By the way, out competitive T-Ball division is 7 year olds.