I play in a Dixie Youth League in SC, and have done so for since I was 6, I'm now 15. Every year I have played, it seems the all star teams are made up of the same few kids, 95% of which are the coach's sons, and league official's kids. Only 2-3 of which actually deserve to be there.

From watching other nearby leagues, and playing them, it is evident we have quite a bit of talent in my league, and could have very good all star teams IF the "best" 15 or so were selected.

The all stars are selected by the coaches getting together at the end of the season and voting for the top 15 or so kids. Come all star season, the coaches will actually "campaign" amoung the other coaches for their vote for their son.

Although I can't really think of any other way to do it, I believe there is a better way. Perhaps the umpires, because we have the same crew the entire season? Or get the stats together and select that way? (if the books are kept correctly) The sad thing is that when the team is formed, the whole team is nothing but short stops, and people have to play out of position to form a team.. No thought is put into filling positions while forming the team.

Personally I wish they would quit with all stars all together.

I am mainly interested to find out if this is the way it is for other people as well... Because now even at the high school level, the politics of who your father is in the community, is very important. :(

I have been a coach in Dixie Youth for the past several years. My son has made all-stars every other year, his second year in each league. Each time that he made it he was a unanimous selection, each time that he didn't make he failed to get any votes at all. Each time I thought that this was fair. I think that there are reasons why all star teams have many coaches children as members. The more talented players have more tendency to attract their parents' attention and interest, thus the parent is more likely to become a coach. Also, the more interested parents are more likely to work with a child and help develop the skills which make the player an all star. I have heard the complaints that you mention here in our league, too. Some are certainly worthy of debate, but people often see what they want to see, whether it be positive or negative. On the flipside, last year in our league the 11-12 all star head coach's 11 year old son failed to make the team. He accused me and the other coaches of a conspiracy to keep his son off the team so he would choose not to coach. I accused him of incoherent rambling. This year my team has all but wrapped things up so it looks like I will be head all star coach for the first time. We pick all stars Friday. I truly hope that my son does not get any votes because he simply does not deserve it. Anyone who thinks that this coaching thing is one big picnic should try it. I have one year left and would not have missed it for the world. Good luck to everyone's all stars and may the best team win in a game with no errors and no walks. (yeah, right)

First, I've never been involved at any park or had friends at any park that did not have at least some issues around "Daddy-ball". Some are worse than others, but I don't think you ever really get away from it.

Our park had an issue with fielding All-star teams that were not the best kids so we formalized a process whereby each team could nominate 2 (maybe 3) players for All-star try-outs. From those 2 try-out sessions the All-star coach would select a team. Our park's All-stars (any age group) had never won our District tournament and rarely even managed to get to State. The first year of the new process we had 6 of 8 age groups win the District! Now I'm sure there were some other factors involved, not to mention coincidences, but in general I think it showed a lot of people what can happen if you look at the broader picture rather than just what's in it for you and your son.

While I agree that there should be a better way of choosing All-Star players I have yet to see one that works. Even the "Player Selection/Try-Out" method has it's faults because typically the Managers/Coaches who will run the team know that prior to the Try-Outs taking place and you fall into an even worse situation where now it is not 8-10 managers agreeing but 1-3 managers choosing. I have seen this type of behaviour first hand and it does irritate me quite a bit.

I have coached my own son for four seasons in which All-Stars were available and only sent him once. The problem is that most coaches I run into seem to feel that since they are volunteering so much of their time throughout the season that their child should get to play as many games as possible which means they go to All-Stars. I personally don't see any way to combat this perspective short of bringing in All-Star coaches that were in no way connected with the regular season and I don't know of a leauge that would consent to that drastic of an action even if they could find coaches/managers that would take the positions.

The bottom line is that as long as the league is made up of volunteers you are going to have this type of situation quite frequently.

"Basebal1187"

I agree with you wholeheartly son, welcome to the world.
As long as kids games are organized and ruined by ego- driven parents, coaches, etc. This is going to happen. Truthfully though, there are probably many organizations where the kids do come first and the "I SYNDROME" does not prevail.

Let the kids pick the teams. Heck, they're the one's playing the games. I believe the competion would be just as good too.

When I coached the "AllStar Team", I actually had board members that suggested that their son's should be on the team because daddy was a board member. I even received a threating phone call from one board member that was also a police officer. Well I did'nt pick that kid and he called me to apologize for his father and agreed that he did'nt belong on the team. I will never forget that phone call.
The Boy went on to become a doctor and his Dad drank the rest of his life away. Sad, but true.

Don't be discouraged, keep fighting for things to be fair. Not only in youth Baseball , but in all things.

Been there; done that.

A father's first responsibility is to his children; no matter how pitiful they are as ballplayers. Who gives a rip; none of 'em are gonna be Major Leaguers anyhow.

If someone doesn't care for whom you select to be on YOUR team . . . let them become a coach and get paid the big bucks for babysitting YOUR kids.

Neither of my kids were great, or even good, ball players. But both of them were, and continue to be, All Stars in my book!!!! If I have any influence on who's gonna be on my team, you bet your bootie my boys are on it!

Life's too short to worry about what other folks say/think. When my kids grow up (and they have) they'll know exactly why they were on the team . . . and why they'll put their own kids on the team when they grow up.

Jerry

I'm sorry you feel that way. But when there are other kids that deserve to be there more than your own, like it or not, it's not right for your kids to be there instead of the ones who actually deserve it because of their ability.

In the real world you're not going to be there to get your kid a job or get them into college, so why baby them now?

I feel sorry for your sons that their own father feels they're inadequate.

Jerry

Well when I have a son (I'm 15), I will not put them somewhere or in a situation they did not earn. What does it teach them for you to put them on a team where they know they don't belong? Are you going to do this for them their whole life? And in no way is this a matter of making your son feel "inadequate." It merely teaches them that they will have to earn and work or everything in life, and that daddy won't be there forever.

Let me guess. You weren't named to the All Star team, were you?

Jerry

Jerry -
Where do the major leaguers come from then? I thought they had to learn the game someplace, maybe I'm wrong. Somebody's kid grows up to be a major leaguer.

YOUR team? I always thought All-Star teams were the league's team.When did it become YOUR team?

Lookin' out for number 1, hey? Tends to make you a pile of number 2.

Baseball 1187 -
All-Stars have always been and always will be an exercise in politics. The process can be fairer than most but judgements will always have to be made. Some players I thought deserved such honors never got them, other people thought differently. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes not.

Jerry, the "debate" if you will, was never about whether or not I made the all star team, and your comment has absolutely nothing to do with my original point, or question, which was wondering if anybody else saw these problems with the all star teams in their youth's baseball program. In doing this I was attempting to point out a level of ethics that coaches should have in selecting a team based on player's ability, not just an all star team.

Lets see here, Basebal1187 is the young kid, and Jerry is the Adult.

Or did I get that mixed up?

Basebal1187, you got my vote for Father of the Year".

When in college, I was the Physical Instructor for a local city park in Chicago. My second summer there, I was asked to manage the Major division All-Star Team in city competition. I agreed. There were 12 teams, and each team sent three players to the tryouts. We could carry 18 on the playoff roster. I had to send 18 brokenhearted boys home. At the next BOD meeting, I cursed them out, as only a former Marine sergeant could do. I told them this was a stupid system. The reply was, "They're told they're trying out". I told them that as soon as the boy hears, "All-Star", everything else is shut out. They tell their parents, siblings, grandparents, friends, and anyone else who will listen.
I then told them, that if they wanted me to take the team next season, it would be on my terms. Since I watched ALL the games, and one of our umpires (he would be coaching with me) worked most of the games, we would do the choosing. We picked the best player at each position, then filled in, choosing at least one from each team.

Unfortunately, we lost our starting RH pitcher and SS before the playoffs. Doing some jockeying around with the positions, we lost the North side Championship in extra innings. My partner umped the City championship Game and was of the opinion that, with our full squad, could have won City.

But the main point is, there were no parents involved. There were no politics involved. The boys were happy, the BOD, managers and coaches, and the parents were happy.

Of course, this will not and cannot happen in a "regular" youth program.

Bob

For Basebal1187:
If you were my son, son; and if I were the coach of the "All Star" team . . . you can bet your bootie you'd be on it. Doesn't matter to me that you have no talent and are hopelessly inept. I'm proud of you and, in my eyes the best and most talented kid on the team; heck; you're only gonna be in the field 1-inning anyhow. Let's hope nothing gets hit your way.

By the way . . . don't worry about all those other "real" ballplayers on the team. Since the beginning of time, the really talented players have never, ever committed an error, dropped a ball, struck out, or tripped over their own feet. Only the inept sons of coaches do that.

As for that "All Star Game" concept we were talking about . . . why not let every single kid in the league come up to bat at least once? And play at least an inning in the field? That way, not a single solitary parent can complain about how his/her little darling was left out.

My last word on this topic . . . I was a coach for only a couple of years; I'm a Dad forever. By the way, I didn't have any kids at the time I was coaching; so all the name-calling and criticizing sent my way recently has really been rather in vain.

Jerry

Jerry, I hope I didn't critize you, I was just trying to express my point of view, which happens to contradict with yours, quite obviously.

All-Star Selection
 

It defeats the whole purpose of "All-Stars" if you don't have a process that allows for selection of the best players in the league no matter what their relationship is to the coach or officials in the league. To suggest that no matter what you would put your kids on the team clearly says your priorities are not the good of the league but rather are self-serving and very irresponsible as a parent. I say this because if your kids haven't earned a spot on the team and dad gets them on it, they haven't learned anything of value about life. So, dad, are you going to make sure they get hired at whatever job they want? What about upper education? If you are a loving parent you sometimes have to teach your kids with "tough love" and let them learn that respect among their peers isn't achieved by anything daddy does for them...it's done based on what they have earned. So let them "fail" or "succeed" on their own sometimes. Guide them, encourage them but teach them that they must earn their position in sports and life.

With that said, our league uses a point system and all kids who attended try-outs prior to the start of the season are eligible for All-Stars. The All-Star manager, his two coaches and another league official (usually the vice-president of lower division baseball or upper division depending on what level the All-Star team is we are talking about) conduct a week-long clinic consisting of a couple hours a night of basic baseball drills and practice game situations. They are scored on fielding skills, batting skills, running speed, attitude, sportsmanship, etc.

When the week is over the evaluators compare notes and the top 14 scores are chosen. In one such Clinic this year, the coach's son didn't make it and neither did my son. Even though I umpired over 80 games in all divisions I couldn't influence the selection of my son, who didn't deserve to be on the team this year. When selection was over my son, who was a little disappointed not to be selected, came home and started practicing harder so he could make the team next year.

Through seeing that dad won't help him get what he hasn't earned and having dad call him out on strikes a few times or out on close plays, he's learned that he must earn his achievements rather than think or expect Dad to get him something he hasn't earned.

Much of this attitude has to do with parents. We, as parents, must try not to live vicariously through our children and let them know that we love and support them and are proud of them regardless of the degree of success they show in sports.

I also am involved in Dixie Youth baseball (coaching and umpiring). We have the same problem as it seems everyone else has. Daddys coaching teams and campaigning for his son to make the all-stars. We have had fist fights and friendships broken over the selections. We went to our Recreation Director with an idea of selecting all-strs on all levels. Designate a 10 member commitee, make sure they have no relationship with any of the boys or the coaches. Keep the commitee private and let them make the selections at the end of the year all-star meeting. The decisions will unbiased and fair.

How would you possibly find 10 people (or half that) that have no relation to the boys or coaches that would watch enough games, pay enough attention, and remember enough when it was all over to select all stars?
I watch every game, know every player, and have a book with my games in it to refer back to, and it is still difficult to make the decision of who to vote for sometimes.

Great idea...too bad its only a dream! Our league was divided a few years ago into North and South with about 750 kids in each one. Between our two leagues I don't think there are 5 adults who don't have a personal connection to one or more players in the league.

The idea I suggested earlier actually works if each member keeps a seperate score sheet and then notes are compared at the end of the weeklong "clinic". Amazingly the evaluators who did the scoring all had the same 12 names common to their list and differed on only two players. Each picked one of the two they chose not on the other list and the Board approved the team. As I said the coache's son didn't make it on the team and a few Board members' didn't have their child on the team. But, we did end up with a very good team this year. Time will tell if this works consistently.

We had one league consisting of various age level divisions. Each division had an "All Star" game, complete with commemorative T-shirts and a miniature trophy. EVERY player in the league (who was available for the game)was named to an All Star team; each team being comprised of players from all regular season teams.

They used a continuous batting order, with every player batting. Each player was announced beforehand, stating his name and his team affiliation. No pitcher could pitch more than one inning. No team could score more than 5-runs an inning (at all age levels) and except for that rule and to track outs per inning, each game consisted of a full 7-innings. Coaches were prohibited from having their own kids on their team.

Talk about cameras! No pressure; no arguments; just a bunch of proud parents, coaches and kids.

Tournament teams however!!!! My Lord what a fiasco!

Memories ....
 

C'mon, Jerry.
I resemble that.
(<Font size = -2><i>My kid did, though. ;)</i></Font>)

This is so Politically Correct it stinks. No wonder the world is in such a mess. Let's give them all a trophy. Waa! Waa! And while you're at it please don't spank my little Johnny in school.
Does anybody wonder why kids are shooting each other in schools these days? It's because we no longer teach the how to lose graciously.

Loyd:
"Politically Correct" wasn't even in the vocabulary at that time. Folks actually "played" baseball.

When I coached, I think our team may have won one game the entire season . . . and that was by forfeit.

But if you asked any kid in the league what team they wanted to play on . . . guess what the answer was.

I still have an autographed baseball . . . "To the coach that brought us donuts on Saturday morning practices."

Funny . . . I ran into a "kid" recently (who now plays in the MSBL) who recognized my name (I'm now an umpire). His memories of our time together when he was a pre-teen still remain with him.

I had parents (yes, parents!) tell me . . . "my son would have quit playing baseball except for how you praised all the kids no matter how poorly they did." Our most-prized trophy for the year was "The Most Improved" . . . meaning somebody actually caught the ball by the end of the year.

We had one kid who actually went on to play Minor League ball; he played a game with a broken wrist . . . because he wanted to. (With full approval of his parents, by the way.)

It's the crybabies and wannabe's of today's baseball that gives the sport a bad name; not the dedicated "kids" of yesteryear!

There's no such thing as a bad kid; they're all "All Stars" to me!

Jerry

Same ol' same ol'
 

Yes Basebal1187,

I see the same thing here in our local leagues - Coaches always have their lackluster son's on their team in the more important positions. Better players setting on the bench while the coach (father) tries to motivate his son to a higher level of performance.

These sons, promoted beyond their ability, generally act very indifferent and unmotivated. SUCH IS LIFE - THE THINGS THAT WE DON'T EARN ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO US. Surely there are exceptions; a father's love is not, and should not, be earned; but there are those kids that fail to see its importance until later in life, or until it is too late.:(

It is very frustrating to see your loved son setting on the bench while the coach's son lobs in beachball after beachball and the score difference gets wider and wider... or the coaches son/catcher lets every other pitch get passed him ... or refuses to bunt when father/coach tells him to sacrafice... or a million other stupidities. And the child is indignant or indifferent. The child's position on the team was unearned and the child's attitude is disrespectfully lazy. Yes, the undeserving child looks bad but the father/coach looks worse.

Some people have integrity and can correctly choose and coach talented players. Others refuse to recognize their own immaturity and think they can create desire in their son by giving undeserved opportunity. Again and again the desire never gets passed from the father to the son... all the while a deserving child with loads of desire sits the bench... frustrated... complaining that he doesn't get opportunity. The undeserving one who received the opportunity, often grows to be a flippant braggart. The deserving child who didn't receive opportunity often succumbs to the level of underacheiver and complainer - unwilling to put forth the effort because it wasn't recognized and rewarded, finding consolation among others that also feel they have been wronged. It's a tough cycle to break.

As somebody else has pointed out... this is life. I see this kind of childish crap going on all around me in all facets of business.

Basebal1187, you write and think very well for a 15 year old... and defend your thoughts very well... for a 15 year old. Perhaps around you, there will be an island integrity - we tend to create our own environment. I think you will grow to live in a wholesome one.

Best to you, Tony

Well said, Jerry!

In addition to the coaches selecting, we have 2 recreation department staffers that have a vote as well. This helps, but does not solve the problem mentioned here.

I'm a blue, but when I was coaching, I wanted the best players regardless of who their parents were. I've made people mad, but I told them in my opinion their sons/daughters were not the best. I did tone it down.

Yes, well said Jerry, but where did I say these All Stars you are talking about are bad kids? I was implying that they were being fed a bunch of crap, GIVING them trophies and tee shirts as if they were All Stars. That's almost the same thing that happened to start the orgininal arguement about people being selected All Stars because their DADDYs the coach.
Have a blessed day,

Baseball1187
 

I certainly do not have a solution to the problem you originally stated. That problem has been around a long time and will undoubtedly remain with us until the end of baseball.

I basically just wanted to say I am quite impressed with how you have responded to some of the replies. It seems you are on your way to being an All-Star in other areas more important than youth baseball.

Keep up the good work. Try to enjoy baseball while you can.

Unfortunately favoritism exists in youth sports and is not likely to change any time soon due to the fact that the only ones who volunteer to coach are the parents of the athletes.

I am a 4 year official and have a son who is twelve who played lil' league this year. A tryout was held to chose an All Star team to compete in a European Little League Tournament with World Series hopes. I called games for them during the season and was asked, as well as several other parents, to help with the tryouts and be an evaluator.

Fortunately my son was probably one of the top 5 players in the league, so there were no worries of him not making the team. But anyway, I came up with a way to evaluate players even though parents were doing the evaluating.

We lined up the athletes who were trying out and had them start counting 1,2,3 etc. They were told to remember their number. On our evaluation sheet, it showed...batting, fly balls, ground balls. Under each were numbers with very good, good, average, poor. Here's an example.

Batting Ground Balls Fly Balls

1. Excellent Excellent
Above Average etc
Average
Poor

Comments:_________________________________________ _____

2. ETC....


We then seperated them into groups for infielding and outfielding. Once we as evaluators saw all of them field grounders and throw to first from short, we switched and saw them all catch fly balls, then we watched them all hit.
As they went out to their position to perform the different drills, we asked them their number. Obviously as an evaluator, you know your own son's number, but not the others. Even if you as a parent gave high marks for your son, it may not be reflected in the other evaluators chart as they evaluate the same drills. At the end we all got together and made the cut based on our evals.

reality
 

I know this sounds harsh, but thats how life is!

Alot of this world is run by the concept of favoritism. Have you ever been given a favor or gotten something complimentary because of a friend? Gotten a job because of a reference from a friend?

All-stars are no different. Personally, yes, I do think that alot of the coaches son's DONT deserve to be on the team, but its one of the perks for that coach who has to be there Every game, every practice, every association meeting. No, its not fair, but its life. Look at the voting for the ALLSTAR game...alot of it is about popularity...(and sure the skill attributes to that...but lets make my case stronger by assuming it doesn't)

In reality, I dont recall WHO said it, but the truth remains...those parents who are coaches usually DO have better quality players because they spend more time with thier son/daughter honing thier fielding and batting skills.

If the kid obviously sucks, then THEY look bad as a coach...At higher levels of play, the player will usually be more "qualified" and "deserving" of the spot he "inherited."

Rest assured, the quality players who dont have a coach/father, will be noticed. And if not then he better bring dad up to coach. It all equals out when they reach high school. AkA the GREAT EQUILIZER...(80 try out...about 17 make it)

haha, I gotta use that one! :)

My son is in a Little League tournament this weekend. Last evening the umpire for the games met and I listened in on their conversation. The lady running the program intimated that in previous years the umpires had been responsible for selecting an MVP for each game that they worked (I assume their decision was based upon plays during the game and the individual player's performance). This year she wanted to do it differently...

"I mean they are all All-Stars. So let's have the umpire choose a number between 1 and 1000 and then have each of the players try to guess the number. Whichever player is closest to the number gets the MVP trophy for that game."

I had a rough time choking back a laugh on that one. :) The concept of 'yeah they are all All-Stars so let's give random trophies' was funny enough but the idea of an umpire being able to do math with numbers involving three digits was what nearly put me over the top!

How about the first 20 kids that show up for the tournament get MVP trophies? I mean they are all All-Stars," so why not? Maybe the word RANDOM should be included on the trophy... "RANDOM MVP" :D

You could also put (coach's son) in parentheses.

Oh, gees!
 

DownTownTonyBrown,
Yer holding out on the punchline!
Wha' happened?
mick

I'll watch a game today and maybe a couple tomorrow. I'll let you know how well the umpires can do this higher math (half of them look like junior high kids).

In all honesty, I walked away to keep from laughing... but I didn't hear any comments back from the umpires so I assume they will be selecting MVP's with this new numerical method.

MVP?
Definition: Most-closest-guess-to-ill-conceived-numerical Value-randomly-chosen-and-arbitrarily-manipulated-with-higher-3-digit-math of all-the-All-Star-Players. Yeah, Dad! Look at this trophy I got for choosing number 634. MY, my, Son, that is nice. Nice nice.

I wonder if the tournament organizer will have calulators available?
:D

that's embarrassing
 

That's absolutely horrible.

Kind of like the soccer team my 5 yr old played on and they wanted to give everyone a trophy. And they only played three games, the other 8 got rained out!!!

I said for what?

You should have heard the parents talking about me.

Ugh!

What ever happened to parents realizing some kids are just better athletes than others.

Sigh!!

Thanks
David

Re: that's embarrassing
 

Ouch, ... bad memory !

15-20 years ago, our slow pitch team won a tourney, with the money we purchased our very own trophies!

And we were adults? :rolleyes: