At or below the chin ?

Jim Beltz · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 14, 2003, 12:49pm

At what point is the pitchers glove "above" the chin and in violation of 6-1-3? Must the entire glove be above the chin to be in violation of the "...at or below the chin." provision? The case book only contains two references...one for below the chin and one for over the head.

Any help would be appreciated.

Bfair · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 14, 2003, 03:45pm

If any part of the glove is at chin level, it's legal.
IMO, even a string hanging down is part of the glove.....

IOW, this is a technical violation where generally little advantage can be gained.
It's best to use preventative officiating to assure the pitcher remains legal vs. advancing a runner on a technical balk.
Let the players be the game; not the officials.

Just my opinion,

Freix

Ump20 · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 14, 2003, 05:30pm

Relief pitcher Jeff Nelson is above the chin on just about every pitch. It does not seem as if an advantage is gained.

Rich Ives · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 14, 2003, 08:56pm

Jeff Nelson plays under OBR

"At or under the chin" is FED rule.

Ump20 · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 14, 2003, 09:30pm

I must have been away from discussion boards too long. You are correct as this rule being FED not OBR. I recall several years ago that the rule was the BALL in glove had to be below the chin. In a JV game a relief pitcher came in and proceeded to balk the R-1 to second, third, and then home. I often think of that game and why the heck I called those three balks. What advantage did the pitcher gain? But then again I figure why the heck dosen't the catcher or the coach get it corrected. There appeared to be a language barrier as the pitcher did not seem very conversant in English. Then FED figured umpires couldn't tell where the Ball in the glove was and they revised it to the GLOVE itself and OBR eliminated any mention of it.

Gee · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 15, 2003, 07:43am

MLB finally realized that the head was really part of the body. The interp now reads that the pitcher must come to a stop in front of his body, INCLUDING THE HEAD.

DownTownTonyBrown · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 16, 2003, 10:14am

Had an obnoxious coach this weekend that wanted the entire mitt below the chin. Didn't get the call from me.

My dopey partner, the PU, didn't make the call either but after the game in discussions with the coach... agreed with the coach! That's my teammate. I responded to my partner, "You're not helping our cause any here. If that's the case then that pitcher didn't throw a legal pitch the entire inning. And you didn't call any balks." The coach laughed and left.

Jim Beltz, The only place I have seen this in writing (but there are probably others) is in Referee Magazine a couple months ago (May or June issue). Their opinion, and I think it is a proper one, is any part of the mitt below the chin qualifies as a legal set position. And recall that in FED rules this is only applicable to the set position and not the windup.

I've never seen the purpose for the rule. I've had a couple people suggest that it is to prevent the pitcher from spitting on the ball. I don't see this as reasonable. In fact, the vast majority of pitchers don't hold their mitt open to their face from the set position - the back of the mitt generally faces the batter.

I'm with Bfair and the others... no advantage gained, nothing deceptive... don't look for uneeded things to call.

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 16, 2003, 11:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Had an obnoxious coach this weekend that wanted the entire mitt below the chin. Didn't get the call from me.

The coach and your partner were citing an old FED rule -- about 5 years ago, iirc, the entire glove had to be below the chin. Then it was changed to the ball below the chin. Then it was changed again to any part of the glove below the chin.

Jerry · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 16, 2003, 01:03pm

No One; and I mean "No One!" (except maybe some rookie Umps) call that. Along with "put that helmet on" and "you can't take signs off the rubber" and "you stepped off with the wrong foot . . . HA, HA, HA!"

Let's "Play Ball". Leave the arguing to the parents and the uninformed beginners.

Jerry

GarthB · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 16, 2003, 01:10pm

No One; and I mean "No One!" (except maybe some rookie Umps) call that. Along with "put that helmet on" and "you can't take signs off the rubber" and "you stepped off with the wrong foot...

You may get some argument over the last one there, pard. That can be a pretty sneaky move. Downright illegally deceptive.

Jerry · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 17, 2003, 06:13am

Garth:
I was thinking one thing but saying another . . . by "stepping off with the wrong foot", I meant that everyone in the ballpark knows F1 has no intention of throwing anywhere; simply disengaging because he inadvertently was in the Windup position. Not even looking or considering an attempted pickoff. His coach, his teammates, his Aunt Mabel in the stands and his Kindergarden teacher who's watching the game are all yelling, "Step off; step off; you've gotta go to the Set position!!!" THAT'S when only a rookie ump and uninformed coach would call or want a "balk".
Jerry