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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:10pm
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Missed base caused by OBS

OBR. R1. The batter grounds one down the right field line. R1 is obstructed (type b) by F4, causing R1 to miss 2nd base. R1 is then thrown out on a close play at 3rd base. The umpire calls time and awards R1 3rd base.

Can R1 be called out on appeal for missing 2nd base?

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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
OBR. R1. The batter grounds one down the right field line. R1 is obstructed (type b) by F4, causing R1 to miss 2nd base. R1 is then thrown out on a close play at 3rd base. The umpire calls time and awards R1 3rd base.

Can R1 be called out on appeal for missing 2nd base?

Thanks.
Yes. R1 is still responsible for running the bases correctly. If during the dead ball he first returns to 2B, touches it, and then goes to 3B, he will negate an appeal.

Obviously, in OBR you're not going to rule on an appeal until the ball is made live. If R1 has not touched 2B and the defense legitimately appeals the missed base, R1 is out.
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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
OBR. R1. The batter grounds one down the right field line. R1 is obstructed (type b) by F4, causing R1 to miss 2nd base. R1 is then thrown out on a close play at 3rd base. The umpire calls time and awards R1 3rd base.

Can R1 be called out on appeal for missing 2nd base?

Thanks.
If the runner misses the base directly as a result of the obstruction (and was close enough to the base in the umpire's judgment that he couldn't conveniently touch the base), we will not uphold an appeal on that runner. There are citations from Fetchiet and from Wendelstedt in the most recent BRD to this effect.
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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:51pm
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Not aware of any rule that gives a runner an exception for not touching a base. OBR 7.02. Even on an award, OBR Rule "7.05(i) Comment: The fact a runner is awarded a base or bases without liability to be put out not relieve him of the responsibility to touch the base he is awarded and all intervening bases. For example: batter hits a ground ball which an infielder throws into the stands but the batter-runner missed first base. He may be called out on appeal for missing first base after the ball is put in play even though he was “awarded” second base."
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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:53pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Yes. R1 is still responsible for running the bases correctly. If during the dead ball he first returns to 2B, touches it, and then goes to 3B, he will negate an appeal.

Obviously, in OBR you're not going to rule on an appeal until the ball is made live. If R1 has not touched 2B and the defense legitimately appeals the missed base, R1 is out.
According to J/R "If a runner misses a base because of obstruction, an appeal of his miss of such base cannot be upheld."

BRD qualifies it if the umpire judges the runner would have touched the base without the obstruction.
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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:55pm
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Michael,

I disagree.

If the umpire judges that the obstruction was the proximate cause of the runner missing the base, the runner is under no obligation to retouch the base after the ball becomes dead, and an appeal of the miss cannot be upheld.

Ref.: J/R (Ruling on Obstruction), BRD ("Obstruction: Causes baserunning error)

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Old Sun Mar 11, 2012, 09:24pm
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Think of it this way, fellas. If the runner were required to touch an obstructed base, why wouldn't F3 just sit on the base on every ball to the gap?

If the OBS causes the miss, he does not have to go back and touch it.

(I won't speak to FED rules, because I have a day job)
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 08:04am
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OBR
7.06 (b)
If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time” and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.

I think ignoring the missed base would constitute nullifying the act of obstruction.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 08:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex View Post
OBR
I think ignoring the missed base would constitute nullifying the act of obstruction.
This.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 08:50am
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Also think about a following runner

If obstruction causes a missed base such as home plate with a following runner sliding in shortly after, the obstructed baserunner would not be allowed to touch the plate. So you award the touch due to the obstruction.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 10:36am
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Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison View Post
So you award the touch due to the obstruction.
This is exactly the problem I have with this interp. There is no such thing as an awarded touch.

Also, it violates the principle that a baserunner is always required legally to touch each base in order.

Don't like it. I might live with it, but I don't have to like it.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:00am
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There's the confusion. It's not an award, if the runner has already passed it.

Now, if the OBS happened at first, like if the BR was decked by F3, and didn't advance, and if the umpire awarded him third, THEN he would be obligated to touch second, on his way by first.

Now, here's the tricky part, and point of contention. Say that runner had his leg broken near first, caused by that OBS. A sub comes in and goes to third. Does HE have to touch first and second, on his way?

Honestly, I don't know.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:08am
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Originally Posted by kylejt View Post
Now, here's the tricky part, and point of contention. Say that runner had his leg broken near first, caused by that OBS. A sub comes in and goes to third. Does HE have to touch first and second, on his way?
The sub has to complete the award, which includes touching bases between the last legally acquired base and the awarded base. He doesn't get to walk out of the dugout and directly to third base.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:18am
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Ah, but does he have to touch first, because of the OBS? The original runner wouldn't need to, if he were standing on third.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2012, 11:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
This is exactly the problem I have with this interp. There is no such thing as an awarded touch.

Also, it violates the principle that a baserunner is always required legally to touch each base in order.

Don't like it. I might live with it, but I don't have to like it.
I agree, both JR and BRD make weak arguments in support of this ruling. But they are official. I was always under the belief that under all circumstances the runner had to touch and the umpires award for OBS took into consideration the additionaal effort to make the touch after being obstructed. BRD talks about OBS at the base vs several steps from the base.

This interp really stretches the imangination of the rule. But it certainly not the only one.
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