Play occurred last night..... basic fundamental rule question.

Runners on first and second........ball hit to SS. Runner on second stays standing on 2B. Runner on first runs toward second. SS tags the runner standing on second then runs to tag the runner going to second. Confusion erupts. Runner on second never leaves the base. Play ends.

Question...... does the runner on second lose the safety of the base even though he is forced to third. Can he be tagged out while he is standing on base.

I've looked this up in the Dixie and NFHS rules and am not certain of its clarification. What rule would this be referred to?

<i> Originally posted by DocSam </i>

<b> Play occurred last night..... basic fundamental rule question.

Runners on first and second........ball hit to SS. Runner on second stays standing on 2B. Runner on first runs toward second. SS tags the runner standing on second then runs to tag the runner going to second. Confusion erupts. Runner on second never leaves the base. Play ends.

Question...... does the runner on second lose the safety of the base even though he is forced to third. Can he be tagged out while he is standing on base.

I've looked this up in the Dixie and NFHS rules and am not certain of its clarification. What rule would this be referred to? </b>

OBR Rule 2.00 Definition of Force

<i> <b> A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. </b>

Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the "force" situation is removed during the play. Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag out at second, the run counts.

Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score. </i>

In your example, all F6 had to do was tag r2 (even though his is standing on the base) which he did and then tag second base. No need to TAG R1 since R1 was still Forced to the next base.

The base is no longer a "safety valve" when you are FORCED to vacate it by means of a batter becoming a runner.

Pete Booth

Even though he is standing on 2nd he is still out? Why wouldn't F6 have to throw the ball to third to get the force?

While you may be thinking of it that the runner is forced to his next base, you might want to change your thinking to that he is forced from the base he already has. With that said, there is no safety on a base he is forced to leave.

Of course, once a following runner is retired, he is then no longer forced to leave his original base.


Freix

It is a common misconception that you need to touch the base on a force play. You may tag either the runner or the base. The rule is:

<i>7.08 Any runner is out when_
e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder <u>tags him or the base</u>, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;</i>

speaking fed rule 8-2-7 NOTE:

If two runners are on the same base at the same time and bot are tagged the following runner is declared out. On a force play situation the runner who is forced to advance shall be declared out when tagged on the base or the base to which he is forced is touched by a fielder with possesion of the ball.

What would happen if F6, with the ball, touches second base with his foot than touches B2 who is standing on second base and not advancing?(Assume that first base is also occupied) I would think that B2 would be safe at Second since B2 is not forced to third because there is no longer a force.

Greg

By "B2" do you mean "R2?"

Was R1 also on second at the time?

If "yes" and "no," then you are correct -- the force is removed when R1 is out, so R2 can legally posess / occupy second.

You may ALWAYS tag a runner for an out and ONLY SOMETIMES tag the base for an out.