During a tournament this weekend, had the following:

R1 and R2, pitcher in the Set position extends leg and turns as if to pick off R2 who is leading off. R2 goes and pitcher starts running him down. Pitcher stepped forward off the rubber after feinting the throw to 2nd.

I am not sure if this was a legal move, but it looked really suspicious. Is the pitcher required to properly disengage in this situation prior to running down the baserunner?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Jim

I'm not sure exactly what you meant by "he extends his leg" but if you mean he lifted it up and then started running straight from the balance point I believe that is a balk. He has to step towards second then start running him down.

It was actually a kind of
 

F1 actually lifted his leg, turned toward 2B, did not plant his foot, and then swung the foot to follow the runner going to third and stepped off more towards third to begin running him down.

I called "Time", gave the pitcher his warning (tournament rules required one warning on balks) and placed the runner back at second...

Had he planted his foot toward second, I believe he would have been legal, but as it was he just started too many moves without finishing them...looked like a balk to me.

sounds like one to me too... if you don't step back off the rubber you have to atleast step or fake towards the base, you can't just start the move and run down a guy in the middle of it.

As a general rule, a pitcher can faint towards all bases except first without disengaging. So there is nothing illegal about fainting towards second base, then running towards second as long as the pitcher entire move was in the direction of second base. The only way this would be illegal is if second base was not occupied and no play was being made there.

I guess then I would have to see the play to determine if anything illegal took place. But I guess I would have to see what you mean by "running down a runner."

Peace

Re: It was actually a kind of
 

It seems that since the R2 was breaking toward 3B, then F1 could make a legal move either to 2B or to unoccupied 3B (since he was making a play on the runner).

While F1 is allowed to spin in either direction toward 2B, that same leniency is not provided when going to a corner base. That is, a LHF1 facing 1B would not be allowed to start a move toward 1B and continue (in one continuous motion) to spin backward passing 2B until he was facing 3B. Besides, I'd think he'd break his left ankle before he got there.

However, a RHF1 spinning toward 3B could stop his move short and go toward either base legally since he may legally feint to either base with R2 advancing. Once the feint is accomplished with the legal step, he can continue to merely follow his step off the rubber and chase the runner.

If the move was made by a RHF1, it was likely not a balk.
If made by a LHF1, it was also likely not a balk unless he broke his ankle continuing to spin to 3B. IOW, LHF1 probably stepped more toward 2B than toward 3B when making the initial step. The subsequent steps then may have brought him more toward 3B. There are no restrictions on his subsequent steps.


Just my opinion,

Freix

what kind of move is that? i was once told by a Big XII umpire, about balks, "if the move looks that funny...it's probably a balk."

in your situation, it sounds like it was a balk. from what you've written, the pitcher was motioning forward off the rubber? would indicate to me that he's committed to throwing to the plate. "BALK!" on a pick-off move, it must be clear that the pitcher's intention is to throw either to the plate or the occupied base. the most common case is a left handed pitcher raising the leg and setting it down without gaining ground towards first before throwing. same idea, no commitment there. once you get obvious commitment toward the plate or a base that's where the pitcher has to go, if he changes that...it's a balk.

Bfair wrote:
"However, a RHF1 spinning toward 3B could stop his move short and go toward either base legally since he may legally feint to either base with R2 advancing. Once the feint is accomplished with the legal step, he can continue to merely follow his step off the rubber and chase the runner."

I was under the impression that F1 had to step towards the base he was attempting to pick off the runner (2B in this case), and then continue...

What he DID was start the move to 2B, change in mid-motion to go towards 3B, then ran off, almost towards the Home Plate side of 3B and ran the runner down as he was going to 3B.

He completed his move by throwing to F5 (while in between the mound and 3B) and trying to pick the runner off.

I felt that since the initial move was towards 2B, F1 had to step towards 2B before changing direction.

Is this wrong?

I appreciate all the feedback, a LOT!

Thanks,
Jim

Once a legal feint to 2B has been made, the pitcher may disengage forward or backward from the rubber. So, the question here is was the initial feint legal.

Assuming the pitcher did not first commit to pitch, when throwing <u>from the rubber</u> the basis of the move is dependent on where his step with his free foot goes. Assuming the RHF1 picked up his left foot and started it backward as if to pitch, he can:
<ol><li>step toward unoccupied 3B if it's an attempt to make a play on an advancing runner, or
<li>continue his free foot behind the rubber, in which case he may:
<ol>(A) continue that free foot toward 2B for a feint or throw, or
(B) change direction of that free foot and deliver a pitch</ol></ol>

If you judged that F1's free foot swung completely behind the back edge of the rubber, then he cannot legally step to 3B. After re-reading your posts, it sounds as if you may have judged that to have occurred.

So....if F1's free foot went entirely past the back edge of the rubber, then he likely balked if he did not step to 2B when landing that foot or if he stopped his foot's motion toward 2B and planted it after starting in a different direction other than 2B.

However, if his free foot did not entirely swing behind the rubber, F1 is entitled to step toward unoccupied 3B since the runner was advancing. He need not throw (and he is not required to make any arm motion as if to throw). The legal step is in itself a feint. After the initial step of the feint, F1 may follow off the front of the rubber toward the base or runner.


Just my opinion,

Freix