Using OBR, when a pitcher is engaged with the rubber and has taken his signs, before he comes to a set, what are the things that will trigger you to call a balk? Some are obvious (i.e. he drops the ball) but what about shoulder turns looking back at first while he is still down and is holding the ball at his side or back in full view.

What confuses me is the FED interpretation that turning the shoulders before coming set is a balk. I am now going to be doing league games that are based on OBR and don't want to get all messed up.

I'm a new member here. Hopefully this isn't too 'dumb' of a question. I just want to have some generally accepted criteria that will help me make the right call.

Thanks for your help.

No such thing as a dumb question. But there is such a thing as a lazy umpire.

Try reading OBR Rule 8, 8.00 through 8.05. Then come on back and we can discuss your reading assignment.

(Sorta like the difference between giving a man a fish and teaching him to fish)

A good point
 

Thanks Garth, I was thinking the same thing.

There are quite a few things the pitcher can and cannot do, but they are really covered quite well "in the rule book"

There are quite a few sights on the internet also where these are listed.

After reading these any questions in particular would be very good.

In regards to your question about FED and turning the shoulders. That applies to FED ball only.

In summer leagues or OBR, you will need to read the OBR rules. In a nutshell under OBR the shoulder turns fall under deceiving the runner - its not cut and dry like FED.

Thanks
David

I have read that rule many times as well as a number of other official rules and interpretations books, casebooks, BRD, Evans, etc. I also look around for a forum to discuss a specific point of how folks are interpreting rules.

I doubt that qualifies as a lazy umpire. If there's no such thing as a dumb question, let's see if we can make it so there is no such thing as a dumb answer.

Let me then state what part of the rule is "bugging" me. In 8.01b "Before assuming such Set Position, the pitcher make any natural preliminary motion associated such as that known as "the stretch".

Its the "any natural preliminary motion" piece that I was looking for some help on. The book only describes that it could possibly be the motion that people associate with the stretch. But what other motions are allowed?

I am simply looking for what it would take for you to balk a pitcher between the stretch and the set. Example: pitcher in stretch looks in for sign, raises up a bit and then comes back down to get a new sign. Or, while in the stretch, the pitcher has the ball in his hand at his side but is dangling it back and forth. Or he repeatedly turns his shoulders to look back at 3rd base.

If it's a feint you balk it, if it's not a feint, you don't.

Umpire judgment.

That simple. That complicated.

In OBR the pitching regulations begin when the pitcher comes set, not at toeing the rubber like in HS. This should help somewhat. Of course there are exceptions listed in the book such as dropping the ball.

Addtionally, the shoulder turn is not an automatic balk in OBR. In fact the shoulder turn is not mentioned in OBR. It comes under "feinting" to first while in contact with the rubber. And there is a difference between turning the shoulder when peeking at first and "feinting".

It's hard to believe you read Rule 8.05 when you ask: "Or, while in the stretch, the pitcher has the ball in his hand at his side but is dangling it back and forth".

The rule book lists what's not allowed. It doesn't list what's okay and then everything else isn't.

Lazy doesn't always refer to lack of physical activity.

God help me, I starting to sound like Tee. ; )

That helps quite a bit. As for 8.05, you shouldn't be surprised that I read it. It's obvious that I am having trouble putting all of the pieces together and had gotten confused.