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When an official not only referees (umpires) a sport BUT ALSO coaches that sport . . . is that official held to a different standard than a person that is "JUST" a coach?

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Strikes & Outs

[QUOTE]Originally posted by T Alan:
[B]When an official not only referees (umpires) a sport BUT ALSO coaches that sport . . . is that official held to a different standard than a person that is "JUST" a coach?

I do not think that person should be held up to a different standard, but one would think, they would "cut the Blue some slack" on those bangers and sometimes controversial calls.

I've been a coach / player / and umpire all in the same year. When one coaches - you coach; when your a player - play the game; and when you umpire - officiate the game.

All 3 are very different from one another and we should not mesh these roles as one -

For example; if you think as a player, when you umpire you could get caught out of position on a particular play or not be ready for "something wierd" out there.

In my experiences, umpires who coach, often give the Blues more trouble than a person who just coaches. They are on a "different side of the spectrum now" and since they umpire - they try and "strut" their knowledge of the rules etc.

JMO

Pete Booth

Ah, the education and knowledge continum! Much like a judge, who rises to that position via their legal background; any, umpire or coach who endeavors to wear multiple hats must also be prepared to bear a larger burden of responsiblitiy.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Alan:
When an official not only referees (umpires) a sport BUT ALSO coaches that sport . . . is that official held to a different standard than a person that is "JUST" a coach?
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You bet I hold them to a higher standard. We had a father/son team that coached 12 year old all-stars this past season. I have umpired with both. I have ejected the son twice during tournament play for being WAY out of line. Both times he rushed onto the field(as an assistant) and argued the call. He knows better. Pops agreed that kiddo's behavior was wrong( and that I got the calls right).
Kiddo also tried to blow smoke up my rump by screaming that F2 cannot throw to unoccupied third base to nail a runner. I just laughed at him that time.

Honest to (insert your diety of choice), guys I have yet another challenge with this issue.

Under what consideration do you think a coach cannot be a coach one day and a totally different person the next as an umpire.

I got into this on McGriff Basketball Board once . . . I was once in my life a college basketball coach and a college basketball referee.

Mindy (on McGriff) told me that I was held to a higher standard at ALL TIMES - and that if I couldn't uphold that I should quit either one of the positions.

Now let's look at this with the following story:

Coach of team "A" is also a college baseball umpire. He coaches this team (make it a Babe Ruth Team of 14 to 16 year olds). He coaches in a league that uses the same umpires that he umpires with during the season (OK, let's say this guy works FED AND College).

Now out comes a couple of umpires. coach knows that the PU is just horrible (worked with him or seen him work, or etc). From the first pitch on this Coach is chirping from the dugout (you know the guy: "Where was that pitch?, that wasn't low Blue, Gosh Blue does that plate have corners!")

Now between innings the BU stops this coach on the way to his dugout and says, "Hey Jimbo, you know better than to talk like that . . . you're an umpire fer christsakes!!!"

is the B U correct?

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Strikes & Outs

Let's be honest, as an umpire/coach you know full well what the standards of conduct are and should abide by them; and, so should any seasoned umpire.
Now; if, that coach/umpire crosses the line - he might just get the string pulled on him quicker than "HE" thought!
A "coach"; might, get by the first time on the simple fact that the are ignorant of certain issues, or are perceived to be.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Alan:
Honest to (insert your diety of choice), guys I have yet another challenge with this issue.

Under what consideration do you think a coach cannot be a coach one day and a totally different person the next as an umpire.

I got into this on McGriff Basketball Board once . . . I was once in my life a college basketball coach and a college basketball referee.

Mindy (on McGriff) told me that I was held to a higher standard at ALL TIMES - and that if I couldn't uphold that I should quit either one of the positions.

Now let's look at this with the following story:

Coach of team "A" is also a college baseball umpire. He coaches this team (make it a Babe Ruth Team of 14 to 16 year olds). He coaches in a league that uses the same umpires that he umpires with during the season (OK, let's say this guy works FED AND College).

Now out comes a couple of umpires. coach knows that the PU is just horrible (worked with him or seen him work, or etc). From the first pitch on this Coach is chirping from the dugout (you know the guy: "Where was that pitch?, that wasn't low Blue, Gosh Blue does that plate have corners!")

Now between innings the BU stops this coach on the way to his dugout and says, "Hey Jimbo, you know better than to talk like that . . . you're an umpire fer christsakes!!!"

is the B U correct?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Alan:
Honest to (insert your diety of choice), guys I have yet another challenge with this issue.

Under what consideration do you think a coach cannot be a coach one day and a totally different person the next as an umpire.

I got into this on McGriff Basketball Board once . . . I was once in my life a college basketball coach and a college basketball referee.

Mindy (on McGriff) told me that I was held to a higher standard at ALL TIMES - and that if I couldn't uphold that I should quit either one of the positions.

Now let's look at this with the following story:

Coach of team "A" is also a college baseball umpire. He coaches this team (make it a Babe Ruth Team of 14 to 16 year olds). He coaches in a league that uses the same umpires that he umpires with during the season (OK, let's say this guy works FED AND College).

Now out comes a couple of umpires. coach knows that the PU is just horrible (worked with him or seen him work, or etc). From the first pitch on this Coach is chirping from the dugout (you know the guy: "Where was that pitch?, that wasn't low Blue, Gosh Blue does that plate have corners!")

Now between innings the BU stops this coach on the way to his dugout and says, "Hey Jimbo, you know better than to talk like that . . . you're an umpire fer christsakes!!!"

is the B U correct?
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FWIW, Tee, when I posted that I had ripped an umpire working my daughters softball earlier this season on UT1, I got lambasted! Reason was that everybody knew I was also an ump and was helping out with her teams(not an official coach)pitching and proper appeals etc.
Now in your scenario, I as a BU, would probabaly give one of my looks to fix it. Now if it is a legit rule interp, coach/ump does deserve to be heard, as HE would want to be treated. One of the reasons I got into umpiring was so that when I do start to coach my kids, I do not have my head up my rump. Now I know to appreciate the umpires job! Good topic, BTW...chris

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