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  #76 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 29, 2011, 04:59pm
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Furthermore Mr. Strybel, I said if YOU or YOUR association want to get to the top of the profession. What people at the top the profession in MLB or anywhere else does not disqualify my statement. I was speaking to those who want to get there. You can't get there anymore if you don't use these accepted advanced mechanics. So twist words around that others write like you normally do, but don't do it to mine.

Secondly, you said I spoke in hyperbole. I feel as though I didn't. The purpose of an umpire or official is to judge action, apply appropriate rules, and convey your decision to participants, officials, and spectators. Hence my comparison.

By not making any signal or voice at any point when it is a close play, you are not serving your purpose as an umpire. Plain and simple.
  #77 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 29, 2011, 05:53pm
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Originally Posted by TussAgee11 View Post
Furthermore Mr. Strybel, I said if YOU or YOUR association want to get to the top of the profession. What people at the top the profession in MLB or anywhere else does not disqualify my statement. I was speaking to those who want to get there. You can't get there anymore if you don't use these accepted advanced mechanics. So twist words around that others write like you normally do, but don't do it to mine.

Secondly, you said I spoke in hyperbole. I feel as though I didn't. The purpose of an umpire or official is to judge action, apply appropriate rules, and convey your decision to participants, officials, and spectators. Hence my comparison.

By not making any signal or voice at any point when it is a close play, you are not serving your purpose as an umpire. Plain and simple.
Let's face it, rather than looking at the new and accepted ways of doing something he is relying on the way it used to be done and practices accordingly. Hmmm, what's the name that comes to mind ..... oh yeah, Charlie.
  #78 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 29, 2011, 07:50pm
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When Crawford muffed the catch last night, U3 could clearly be seen giving an emphatic safe signal. Is the mechanic for him to also say "no catch"?

Why wouldn't the PU use the same mechanic for a D3K? Not only do the players need to know what is going on but the spectators would like to know as well.
  #79 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 29, 2011, 11:23pm
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The Academy continues to teach pointing to the side followed by a verbal "no catch" accompanied by the appropriate visual signal.

However, this year, for the first time since the mechanic was introduced, evaluators have told MiLB umpires, at least at AA and AAA, to drop both the verbal and the visual "no catch", but continue to point to the side.

They believe it is the player's responsibility to know the status of play.
  #80 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 29, 2011, 11:57pm
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Originally Posted by MrUmpire View Post
The Academy continues to teach pointing to the side followed by a verbal "no catch" accompanied by the appropriate visual signal.

However, this year, for the first time since the mechanic was introduced, evaluators have told MiLB umpires, at least at AA and AAA, to drop both the verbal and the visual "no catch", but continue to point to the side.

They believe it is the player's responsibility to know the status of play.
Do the evaluators send a memo to the players after they advise a sudden change in the mechanic or are they responsible to get it by osmosis?
  #81 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 12:03am
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Evaluators work with umpires.
  #82 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 12:07am
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Evaluators work with umpires.
Osmosis it is then.
  #83 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 07:45am
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While MrUmpire and I rarely agree, I appreciate him coming forward with the CURRENT instruction from JEA and the MiLB evaluation team. Thank you.

To those who insist that you must follow the guidelines of the best training academy for umpires, what now? It seems that the umpires who want to rise to the top - at least those in MLB and the CWS use the mechanic I do. I find the company comforting. If you decide that you still want to alert a batter to a dropped third strike, by all means do it. Be ready for the opposing coach to make you pay for that mechanic though. Unless of course, the assignor/team/league/association/partner wants you to coach the game too. Ask for more money.
  #84 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 07:56am
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Originally Posted by TussAgee11 View Post
So you think ruling by not ruling or signaling on a close catch/no catch on a ball in flight is good umpiring? Would you do that in any other situation ever on the baseball field?
I suggest Linda McMeniman's from Inquiry to Argument. It will help you argue effectively and with logic. To answer your first question, no. I have already stated that I signal. Please don't pretend I didn't. Your second question is more complex. Yes, there are plenty of calls that aren't signalled. Cans of corn, pick offs without a tag, runners scoring at home on passed balls and the aformentioned foul fly ball that is caught. I hope that helps.

Quote:
Cause as your partner I'm going to have no idea what the hell is going on or what your decision was.
If you can't see a 6'4", 230# umpire holding his arms out at his shoulders or don't know what that means, you really should consider selling your gear.

Quote:
Neither will the players looking at you.
I don't work 11U baseball. The players I encounter know what the signal means just fine. So do the players in the pros and those who played in the CWS where that mechanic is used.

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How is anyone to know that by not doing anything, you are telling them something. They don't know if you know what you are doing or not. You have a call to make. Make it either way. Just like you are supposed to.
Seriously? Really? Do you verbalize your out calls, even the cans of corn? How will they know it's an out if you don't. You'd better get on the phone with Joe Torre right away. I saw a number of plays at first Wednesday night that simply had the umpire make a casual fist pump for an out, no verbalization. He will need to fix that so everyone will know what happened. Just like you are suppsed to do.
  #85 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 07:59am
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Originally Posted by UmpTTS43 View Post
Let's face it, rather than looking at the new and accepted ways of doing something he is relying on the way it used to be done and practices accordingly. Hmmm, what's the name that comes to mind ..... oh yeah, Charlie.
How's that crow?

It seems my advice is pretty solid given the evolving mechanic. Apology accepted.
  #86 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 08:16am
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If you decide that you still want to alert a batter to a dropped third strike, by all means do it. Be ready for the opposing coach to make you pay for that mechanic though.
Really? Worry about what the opposing coach thinks or says? I think you're getting way too dramatic over such a simple thing here. I haven't had a coach ever comment about it.

Do it or don't do it, the sun's still going to rise in the East tomorrow.

(All we need is another Eddings play to shift the tide back towards making a different call, though. Time makes people forget the backlash that came from that "it's my mechanic" nonsense he spewed at the press conference.)
  #87 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 08:36am
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How's that crow?

It seems my advice is pretty solid given the evolving mechanic. Apology accepted.
No crow, no apology.

I have a hard time believing that this mechanic is no longer wanted at the upper levels of MiLB. While I am out of town I will get the correct answer.
  #88 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 08:56am
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
While MrUmpire and I rarely agree, I appreciate him coming forward with the CURRENT instruction from JEA and the MiLB evaluation team. Thank you.

To those who insist that you must follow the guidelines of the best training academy for umpires, what now?....
Mike,

Were you to read what MrUmpire actually wrote, you would see that is not quite what he said.

He said JEA is STILL teaching the verbal and physical mechanic on the "no catch", while AA and AAA evaluators are teaching to simply "hold the point".

JM
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Last edited by UmpJM; Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 08:59am.
  #89 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 09:12am
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Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) View Post
Mike,

Were you to read what MrUmpire actually wrote, you would see that is not quite what he said.

He said JEA is STILL teaching the verbal and physical mechanic on the "no catch", while AA and AAA evaluators are teaching to simply "hold the point".

JM
No John, I read it just fine. They are telling their crews not to verbalize. The point is still a visual demonstartion that a swing occured but not an out. All along I have maintained that there is no need to verbally alert a batter to the dropped strike. We are not coaches.

The last line of MrUmpire's post: They believe it is the player's responsibility to know the status of play.

That is what I have written all along. It's nice to see that the MiLB directive is being invoked given that the top collegiate and MLB umpires have used it for the past year or so.
  #90 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 30, 2011, 09:18am
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Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
I suggest Linda McMeniman's from Inquiry to Argument. It will help you argue effectively and with logic. To answer your first question, no. I have already stated that I signal. Please don't pretend I didn't. Your second question is more complex. Yes, there are plenty of calls that aren't signalled. Cans of corn, pick offs without a tag, runners scoring at home on passed balls and the aformentioned foul fly ball that is caught. I hope that helps.
And a dropped third strike is not always the same is not a can of corn or a runner scoring at home without a play. It can often be a very close decision.


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Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
If you can't see a 6'4", 230# umpire holding his arms out at his shoulders or don't know what that means, you really should consider selling your gear.
F2 fields out of the dirt and fires to 2nd for a play on R1 who is stealing with 2 outs.

How do I know that you aren't signaling "that's nothing" on a potential interference? You better be coming out of your shoes with a no catch here so everyone knows the status of R1, including me. Otherwise I'm going to watch the play and then look back at you to know what I have to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
I don't work 11U baseball. The players I encounter know what the signal means just fine. So do the players in the pros and those who played in the CWS where that mechanic is used.
Why should a batter or catcher have to turn their attention away from the action so you can render a decision? On a catch/no catch in the outfield, so you not verbalize either? All runners look at Mr. Strybel now, its his time to shine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Seriously? Really? Do you verbalize your out calls, even the cans of corn? How will they know it's an out if you don't. You'd better get on the phone with Joe Torre right away. I saw a number of plays at first Wednesday night that simply had the umpire make a casual fist pump for an out, no verbalization. He will need to fix that so everyone will know what happened. Just like you are suppsed to do.
Your favorite past time, twisting up my words. I've asked you not to do it twice now. Seriously. Really.

As I said earlier, a dropped third strike out of the dirt is alot closer than a can of corn or a guy who is out by 15 steps.

At no other point in the entire game do we not verbalize the status of a close play or decision. Not doing it here is playing with fire, plain and simple. By saying "no catch" you aren't telling the runner to run to 1st, you are telling him your decision on whether or not the pitch was caught in flight. He needs to know that so he knows whether or not he can advance to first base or not.
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