The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 24, 2011, 03:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
And to know this situation the umpire(s) have to indicate what it is.
F2 knew he didn't field the pitch cleanly. Why does he need an umpire to tell him to tag the BR?


Tim.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 24, 2011, 06:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
F2 knew he didn't field the pitch cleanly. Why does he need an umpire to tell him to tag the BR?


Tim.
The batter needs to know too. Should the catcher tell him?

And BTW, the catcher doesn't always know. And maybe the umpire didn't see it the same way.

Why call balls and strikes - the catcher and batter should know.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 24, 2011, 08:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The batter needs to know too. Should the catcher tell him?

And BTW, the catcher doesn't always know. And maybe the umpire didn't see it the same way.

Why call balls and strikes - the catcher and batter should know.
Similar to the school of thought in some rule sets that says the OT and DT should "know" it is an IFF even if nobody on the crew calls it. And then there is confusion if it is a force or a tag if the runners attempt (or are forced) to advance.

Still, a catcher should assume a no catch call on anything borderline to avoid this kind of heartburn. Just as runners are cautioned to be aware that they should not immediately come off the bag if they are called out running on a 3-2 pitch that might be ruled ball four.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 24, 2011, 08:35pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
And BTW, the catcher doesn't always know.
You mean you wouldn't tell your catcher, "Hey, if the pitch had even a remote chance that it hit the dirt first, just tag the batter to be safe." ????

You would think after the Josh Paul/Doug Eddings BS that it would be an automatic reaction from every competent catcher.
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 24, 2011, 10:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The Old Dominion, Sic Semper Tyrannis
Posts: 10
Well and true said, SanDiegoSteve,

I suppose if we were coaches, we could say never roll a third strike to the mound until all parties involved acknowledge the third strike.

Since I'm still learning this craft, I also suppose that as umpires, the solution is to be emphatic and clear in our signals on any such third strike situation. The batter is either out on the caught third strike or he's a runner on the third strike not caught. It also helps to have a good pre-game understanding of how to treat these with your partner. But I have to confess, even after we cover this in pre-game, I can't recall ever looking at my partner to confirm. One of many areas I need to improve.
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 11:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
The batter needs to know too. Should the catcher tell him?

And BTW, the catcher doesn't always know. And maybe the umpire didn't see it the same way.

Why call balls and strikes - the catcher and batter should know.
Your ridiculous comment about balls and strikes aside, Rich..............

I'm not saying that the umpires didn't screw the pooch here with their poor mechanics, but I am saying that you can't put all the blame on them. Don't give me this nonsense about the batter either. Apparently he figured it out quickly enough to be standing on first, now didn't he. I played catcher from the age of 8, and continued into my mid thirties, Rich. Your comment that the catcher doesn't always know if he's fielded the ball cleanly is complete BS. He's the only one on the field, in many cases, that is 100% sure whether he fielded it cleanly or not. Time for your daily cheese dose......

Tim.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 04:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
You mean you wouldn't tell your catcher, "Hey, if the pitch had even a remote chance that it hit the dirt first, just tag the batter to be safe." ????

You would think after the Josh Paul/Doug Eddings BS that it would be an automatic reaction from every competent catcher.
You tell them that, they usually do it. That's not the issue.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 04:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
Your comment that the catcher doesn't always know if he's fielded the ball cleanly is complete BS. He's the only one on the field, in many cases, that is 100% sure whether he fielded it cleanly or not.
Tim.
So you're saying sometimes he doesn't know. Thanks. That was my point.


And the real question is what is the umpires opinion. It is the only one that matters, so the umpire should be obligated to let everyone know what it is.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 05:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
So you're saying sometimes he doesn't know. Thanks. That was my point.


And the real question is what is the umpires opinion. It is the only one that matters, so the umpire should be obligated to let everyone know what it is.
I didn't want to speak in absolutes. There's always going to be a coach too dumb to teach his catchers what to do, or a catcher too dumb to know whether he's caught a ball or not.

Tim.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 06:02pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
So you're saying sometimes he doesn't know. Thanks. That was my point.


And the real question is what is the umpires opinion. It is the only one that matters, so the umpire should be obligated to let everyone know what it is.
Curious, but wouldn't the umpire's opinion be at least hinted at by the lack of a verbal "out" call?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 06:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
If the bat had touched the ball in a potential foul tip situation, the crew would be required to make a definitive call as to whether the catcher properly caught the ball for an out. Why should it be any different if the bat does not touch the ball? Perhaps crews have come to rely on the "automatic tag" by the catcher and overlook the need for a prompt call. It would seem "Strike three, no catch" would be the fairest thing for both the catcher and the batter to hear.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 06:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Curious, but wouldn't the umpire's opinion be at least hinted at by the lack of a verbal "out" call?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't some rule sets say that the infield fly still applies even if the crew does not give the verbal call. If so, that doesn't seem proper at all - how are the teams supposed to know if the crew has judged it not to be ordinary effort or just forgot to call it. The "non-call" sounds exactly the same in both cases.
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 06:25pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 6,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry1953 View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't all rule sets say that the infield fly still applies even if the crew does not give the verbal call?
Fixed your post.
__________________
Matthew 15:14, 1 Corinthians 1:23-25
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 25, 2011, 07:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
Fixed your post.
Steve, I don't think all rule sets are the same for an uncalled IFF. NCAA and FED "expect" the players to recognize an IFF even if it is not called. In OBR, it is not an IFF if it is not called. According to J/R, the play stands but a DP which might result should be negated. I suppose the main difference is that im OBR the B/R would be safe at first. The problem with the other interpretation is that it is unclear if a force or tag is required if the ball drops.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 26, 2011, 08:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Curious, but wouldn't the umpire's opinion be at least hinted at by the lack of a verbal "out" call?
You verbalize a 'yerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrout!' on a swinging strike 3?
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swinging Strike + Hit Batter + Dropped 3rd Strike bfoster Baseball 19 Sun May 17, 2009 08:30pm
Dropped Third Strike Thaal Baseball 8 Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:27pm
Dropped 3rd Strike Dean Strong Baseball 15 Sun Oct 03, 2004 03:57pm
Dropped Third Strike jefftheref15 Baseball 2 Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:29am
dropped third strike wmonroe Softball 12 Wed Jun 18, 2003 11:36pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1