Demoting MLB umpires
 

A number of threads focus on ridding MLB of crew members for bad calls. A good question was asked (but never answered) regarding the practice of punishing MLB umpires for bad calls. I offer this and know others can add to it with stories of those who deserve it, earned fines or simply walked away from the scrutiny.

Joe Torre is the MLB Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations. Among his tasks is Umpire Management/Discipline. At his disposal are seven umpire supervisors: six with major-league umpiring experience, and another who is a longtime minor-league umpire in charge of developmental efforts at the Triple-A level. He also has on staff a special assistant and a director of umpire administration who manage a network of 11 field observers. They observe within a very specific set of parameters and do not have contact with the umpires. Each MLB umpire is evaluated for 55% of his games or so, with most being base assignments.

Virtually everything related to umpiring is scrutinized. From pitch-evaluation system, missed calls, ejections, demeanor, hustle, form, concentration and other situations they are all judged on a pass/fail system. Each of the 10-11 categories are graded in terms of exceeded / met / did not meet. They do not use a numerical grading scale for MLB crews. Playoff assignments are made after the supervisors meet for about three days in late September or early October. Their recommendations are given to Torre and then approved by Bud Selig’s office.

Joe Torre is the guy who handles umpire fines and suspensions - the former rarely making the news. MLB umpires are not demoted because of bad calls. Developmental discipline is not something they do. There is an understanding that umpires are human and mistakes happen. That is why Instant Replay is being considered as a tool for assisting them and why umpire conferences exist.

Crew members typically work a decade or so in MiLB before serving as a vacation/injury replacement. Some of those guys work years as a fill-in before getting the call. That’s a whole lot of experience, so demoting them for having a bad game/season is a huge penalty. Even with all of those games behind them, they are going to kick calls. The WUA and MLB protect them. Most of those guys are more critical of their performance than any review could ever be. Consider your most controversial game and you can appreciate the job they do every day.

[QUOTE=MikeStrybel;787659]A number of threads focus on ridding MLB of crew members for bad calls. A good question was asked (but never answered) regarding the practice of punishing MLB umpires for bad calls. I offer this and know others can add to it with stories of those who deserve it, earned fines or simply walked away from the scrutiny.

I don't know this for a fact but my gut feeling is that it's tougher to get rid of below average umpires in baseball than other sports. Certainly no one should be launched because of a bad call or game. But if over a course of a year you don't measure up to certain standards you should be fired. They do that at the lower levels of umpiring why not at the pinacle of the profession? There's too much at stake at the Major League level to not having the absolute best working the games. When was the last time an umpire in the show was fired because he was bad?

[QUOTE=gordon30307;787662]I believe that was 4 years before never.

[QUOTE=mbcrowder;787792]While MLB avoids the word "fired", there have been several instances of umpires being asked to retire. And, they did.

It's amazing how much speculation and incorrect information surrounds this topic. Just because one does not know what happens, that does not mean it doesn't happen.

Mike, thanks for your insightful reply.

You are welcome... it was a correct reply as well.

"When was the last time an umpire in the show was fired because he was bad? " Correct answer: Never. (A note ... 3 Umpire SUPERVISORS were fired after the 2009 season. Not asked to retire ... fired.)

Mr. is correct as well, but as per MLB policy those retirements were treated as exactly that --- retirements, with all benefits that implies. NO umpire (so far) has been fired from MLB for on-the-job performance. At least one that I know of was fired for improprieties (the details escape my mind, but I believe he was selling his freebie plane tickets, or downgrading and keeping the money, or something like that). This same guy was already under investigation for selling memorabilia he had collected during and after games.

Also, several were allowed to resign during the strike quite a few years ago - those not rehired were saying they were fired and demanded recompensation for unlawful termination... I don't recall if every single one of those guys cases are over, nor how they were resolved. But still... none were "fired" because they were "bad umpires".

ô!ô
 

NEW YORK (AP) -- Al Clark, a major league umpire since 1977, was terminated by the commissioner's office this week for improperly using plane tickets in violation of his union's contract, baseball officials said.

Sandy Alderson, executive vice president of baseball operations in the commissioner's office, confirmed Clark's termination but would not get into details.

"My only response is that he is no longer employed by major league baseball," Alderson said Friday.

News of the Clark's departure was first reported Friday by the New York Post, which said Clark was under investigation for issues related to memorabilia.

However, three baseball officials familiar with Clark's departure, speaking Friday on condition they not be identified, said the termination was due to the improper use of plane tickets.

mb(Mike)... Oops, I was referring to Mike Strybel's initial post....I didn't see where there were two Mikes in the thread.

You are welcome. The reference was obvious since I had stated in the original post that MLB umpires do not fear being let go due to performance.

No worries ... so --- where is this reply of Mike's to which you refer? All I see before my post is his OP ... no reply. :)

Oops.

I think he means that Mike Strybel started this thread as a reply to a post in another, now-closed, thread.

I wasn't sure to which "Mike" Larry was referring, but I also don't think it matters.

Me neither, really... hence the smiley.

This reminds me of Rosie Ruiz. :rolleyes: Wait, I meant to use a smiley.

If someone thanks you, it matters.

Wasn't Al Clark fired for shoplifting baseball cards? I seem to remember that story from years back....

JJ

Al Clark already mentioned here... downgrading plane tickets and using the difference for personal trips. He was under investigation for the other when this happened.

John,
I was at a clinic with Tim Tschida shortly after the Clark's story broke. He was hesitant to say but a bit of prodding from the umpires present brought out allegations of memorabilia abuse. Clark had worked some high profile games and allegedly marketed baseballs from those games. It turned out that the balls were frauds. MLB discovered the activities. Apparently there was a history there and fellow umpires knew. He was prosecuted for it if I remember correctly. It's too bad, he was one of the first to wear glasses on the field and brought some levity to the game. The Dave Pallone firing was far more troubling. The Commish at the time was a homophobe who feared bad PR. Maybe you remember the umpire's name, I am on my Droid and won't look it up, who was fired for trying to unionize MLB crews. More bad PR.

Hope all is well. Saw your name attached to the Fall Ball D1 clinic next month. Dress warm.

Mike

Don't know about Al Clark, but Bob Engel's career ended when he was caught shoplifting about 4,000 baseball cards from a Target store.

I would love to see the deceased Commish's rich son sue you for libel. Pallone was a scab and his days were numbered from the day he crossed the line.

Why the F would you want to see someone get sued for posting their opinion on a forum? That's pretty mean-spirited, don't you think? What, are you a trial attorney or something?

Bart Giamatti was a good man. Mr Strybel didn't post his opinion(never mentioned it was), he committed libel unless he can prove that Giamatti was a homophobe. Someone who just throws things out there thinking that they are protected by the first amendment needs to make sure they can back up what they say. It's no different than saying you are a homophobe, SDS. Would you like someone saying that about you?

You just proved you don't know the legal standards for libel.

Well, maybe he's in Britain. ;)

Bart Giamatti had a career as a university professor, where homophobia is vanishingly rare. I've never heard this rumor about him before, but I don't believe it in the least.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't libel the dead.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm 100% positive from personal experience that your statement here is dead wrong.

Nice try. We state our opinions here. At least I have the courage to use my name. Pallone's termination letter included homophobic rationale. Read James Reston's Collision at Home Plate: The lives of Pete Rose and Bart Giamatti. It appears to be the opinion of others too.

If reading a book is too much of a challenge, Google Dave Pallone. You will find numerous sites commenting on his firing and the homophobia the was pervasive in MLB at the time. Many sites include Pallone's own words. But, I suggest some of you read his dismissal letter before looking silly. In it, through the league attorney, A. Bartlett Giamatti cites a story from Pete Rose (who had run ins with Pallone on the field) regarding Pallone picking up a man at a Cincinnatti bar. The rumors were investigated by MLB but umtimately proved false. In firing Pallone in 1988, Giamatti stated, "We just don't feel you can handle the pressure from all the negative publicity." By inserting the alleged gay activity into the termination letter, the commssioner allowed for homophobia to prevail. At the time, Pallone was regarded as a solid umpire on the field. Giamatti was a moralist who held his charges to a high standard. We all know how he handled Pete Rose.

I also want to point out the lunacy of calling Pallone a scab. He was a Minor League umpire who worked to be among the best. He wanted to work MLB baseball and had the opportunity when those umpires walked out thinking they would end the season. They didn't. After the strike, he was retained by MLB because he was good. He worked the 1983 Major League Baseball All-Star Game and the 1987 National League Championship Series so his talent on the field was considerably more than what is possessed by those here. Pallone worked at a time when umpires could get in the faces of players and managers. Google his run in with Rose. He was a lightning rod and paid the price.

Back when the MiLB guys went on strike, I remember reading a piece by an SI writer. In it, he said that those who chose to cross the picket line were similar to Jackie Robinson. They were good enough but the door was closed and they wanted to live the dream. Those are his thoughts, not mine. While not a perfect comparison, it does allow for haters to deny that someone deserved to be there.

It's not often we agree completely, but we do here. Pallone should be finishing up his Major League career as a crew chief right about now, just like Derryl Cousins -- who was another 1979 replacement umpire. Instead, Pallone was fired because he is gay. No other reason than that holds water -- Pallone was one of the best umpires in the Major Leagues at the time of his firing and he ended up getting fired partially because he got bumped around the field by a criminal and because he had the audacity to do whatever was necessary to chase his dream, but mainly because he is a homosexual.

Anyone who throws around the word "scab" can go take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned.

In my experience, college professors hold all kinds of views and are very opinionated about those views. I think we throw around that label too much, but that does not mean he was not discriminatory towards gays and based on what took place in the mentioned example of his views, he was not going to bat for this particular person.

Peace

Thanks, Rich. This thread began as an attempt to explain just how hard it is to fire/demote Major League umpires. I use the present tense because it wasn't always that way.

Some here simply like to ridicule other umpires. I have never understood that mentality. It's a small world.

And it should not be that hard to do so. I think MLB gets this wrong more often than not in how they hold onto or get rid of umpires on their staff. There are simply guys that need to get the walking papers. That is the case in other sports, if you do not grade out they get rid of you. And I think their position is why guys get on MLB's umpires in the first place. You should not be able to stay if you weight 300 pounds even if you are a good guy.

Peace

Nope. One thing that the union did was make it harder for umpires to get fired for petty reasons, like trying to form a union (Bill Valentine and Al Salerno).

But the downside to this is that some umpires should've been let go and others should've been quietly asked to retire years before they did -- and that kept some quality umpires from ever getting their shot at the Major Leagues.

I'm not going to name names, but there are some umpires who simply cannot move to properly work 4-man mechanics who are still in the game. I just don't get why that's something MLB *and* the union is afraid to address. There are well-qualified people out there who could step into the league tomorrow (they're already working as fill-ins) -- nobody is irreplaceable.

And that is the point I am trying to make. These are not simply the best of the best. I also think that MLB needs to get away from the Minor League system as the only way to hire umpires. I think there are good college guys or amateur that should not have to go to "pro school" to umpire that level. Not to say that you cannot train guys, but if that is the only way you shrink the pool of guys that are available.

Peace

I've never thought that people should live in poverty for a decade or more to get a crack at the big time -- most of those people will just find themselves uneducated, unemployed, and 10 years older.

Good article in Referee about a guy who has done the CWS 8 times. No reason to believe that people like this couldn't work MLB. It doesn't take a decade of working miLB, living out of a car, and eating ballpark hotdogs to be a good umpire.

I totally agree. I have a friend that is now in the Majors and he went on to get a law degree while working in the minors. He took advantage of his time off and that is good for him, but that had to be hard to do considering what they pay and where he had to go for law school. I just think this is so stupid that this is the only way they pick guys to work their highest level. One of the reasons MLB is a joke on so many levels IMO.

Peace

Lots of good men have been homophobic and homosexual. What's the point?

I've been called worse. I certainly wouldn't sue somebody over it.

You could have said, "Hey Mike, you might want to be careful saying that without proof, there could be legal repercussions." Instead, you lashed out and wished him financial harm and legal troubles in a venomous fashion. That sucks, buddy.:mad:

+1

SDS:

I am well acquainted with the Giamatti family and have been for many years. If someone made the accusation or inference that Bart was homophobic, they are seriously mistaken.

There were several issues surrounding Pallone's resignation/termination. (Yes, he did submit a resignation, and yes, he did receive a letter of termination.)

Unfortunately most accounts are biased in one direction or another and Bart is not here to defend himself, not that he would have bothered addressing idiots on the internet.

The point was how the poster in question tore into someone for their opinion. My beef was not with Mr. Giamatti, or whether he was or was not. I couldn't care less either way. It was with the way the poster lashed out, which I found unnecessary and over the top.

Our New York based troll simply proves his last sentence correct - he is biased. By alleging that you know the family, you prove the point. Thank you.

A number of good books have been written about Major League umpiring woes. I noted one that tells specifically of Pallone's firing. There are many others, including one by an esteemed SI writer - they all state the same thing; Pallone was fired for being homosexual. It is important to note that I did not mention Pallone's own book as evidence of opinion. As others have stated, he was among the best the year he was fired. It seems ironic that on the day that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was repealed that anyone would suggest otherwise. I guess that we'll now here that he is long time friends with Joe Cronin's family too and that Salerno and Valentine weren't fired by a union buster. The clock is ticking.

Thank you. Anonymity provides safety and it is easy to throw stones over a fence.

For the record, so did I.

I had not read the original post the led to the response. I saw only that apparently someone inferred or accused Giamatti of being a homophobe. That's a serious accusation these days and one that intelligent people do not make casually.

While I do not agree 100% with the response you refer to, I can understand it.

I see my statement ruffled some feathers. Mr. Strybel, when making accusations in an internet forum, imo, I would be extremely careful how I would word what I would say. The content of your accusation could be considered libelous. I understand the law and would have not made the statement if I didn't think it could be considered as such.

I'm not sure if you are aware of who the late commish was the father of. For those of you who are not aware, the late commish's son is Paul Giamatti. If I was Paul Giamatti and was looking to make sure my name isn't used for things that it shouldn't be, I would have my family name googled from time to time to make sure that no one is illegally benefitting from the use of my name. Now if a search came up that showed that someone may have libeled my dear deceased father and they used their name and I could track that name down, I might have to cause that person to have a very bad day. You see, libel wouldn't have to be proven because I have attorney's that work for me and I have plenty of money to pay them. The person that should have stated that it was there opinion that Giamatti was a homophobe, may not have such deep pockets.

In a nutshell, that's the reason I said what I said. Don't go posting crap you can't prove or hasn't been proven by anyone else.

Years ago, Giamatti did some things that helped me and other umpires put a little more green in our wallets. I'm not taking up for him but I hate to see people spout off about things they have no idea about. You may have read that someone said something but you didn't write it.

You still didn't need to say it the way you did. I offered an alternative. You don't seem to get the point. Only the way you said what you said did I have a problem with.

I think it is stupid to call someone a name as if it were a fact (or even if it is a fact), but I also don't like wishing bad things or ill will upon people. There is enough of that in our everyday lives away from this forum. It's really not good karma, just like calling someone names isn't. I have been guilty of this kind of lashing out at people on this forum in the past, insulting them or getting in silly arguments with people I don't even know personally, or understand what their position is, or maybe what they are going through at the time. I regret having done this, and it looks very ugly when looking at it in print.

I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to people that I have insulted or belittled on this board in the past, and to Bob Jenkins for giving him carpal tunnel from all the deleting and editing he has had to do with my posts.

Reminds me of a quote from my literary hero:

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain

A quick look at your posts here show you once wrote, if the wife of the coach involved in an attack against umpires had confronted you in the locker room, she would have had a hard time walking away. Another member chastised you for advocating violence against women. Is that what you meant by being careful with your words and stating only things you can prove? You also denigrated Peter Gammons as a liver lipped fool and described Brewers coaches as having loose screws. Those people are still alive and no, you did not preface your statements as being your opinion.

Illinois law allows for people to state their opinions freely. That is what is done on this forum. You just did it. Parroting the words written in several books and numerous magazines further enables my freedom of speech. Pallone was fired for being homosexual. His termination letter included this topic. He was not fired for performance. Giamatti proved that he wielded ultimate authority with the handling of Pete Rose. People were not terminated without his approval. If you want to believe that Pallone was fired for another reason other than what was stated in the letter, go ahead. You have that freedom. I will retain mine to state my opinion.

Let me sumamrize:

1) One shouldn't slander or libel

2) Whether the comments made rise to that is a matter beyond the scope of this forum.