Should We Get Paid?
 

In our area we play the varsity game first followed by the JV game. Before the start of the varsity game, we make it a habit of asking what the coaches have planned for the JV game. Some teams play three innings, some play five. A couple of weeks ago we were told that the JV game would be five innings. In the bottom of the fifth, the home team tied the game as the third out was being recorded. My partner signaled that the run counted and we started to leave the field by way of he home dugout. As we were leaving, the home coach pointed out that the game was tied. I handed him the game balls and said, "You said we were playing five innings, our night is over." He didn't put up much of a protest, but we did notice when we got to our cars, that the visiting team was in their dugout preparing to bat. We left and thought nothing about it.

When I received payment, I noticed that we had only been paid the varsity game fee. I called my partner from that night and he said he got the same check. We plan to call our assigner and let him know that we do not wish to work at this school again. We will also be calling the school and telling them that we need our money. I don't intend to stay around for extra innings when it is just a JV game.

What would everybody else do in this situation?

Play the extra innings. The JV team is entitled to a full game (however the two schools involved define a "full game") just as the varsity team is entitled to a full game.

The game fee is an issue between you, your assignor/association, and the school.

Apologize to the school for acting like an *** and to the assigner for causing him / her problems.

(Unless, of course, it's customary in your area to end JV games at the end of x innings, even if the game is tied.)

This is a local standard. Yes you should be paid for the second game because you worked an official game by completing 5 innings. Now what happens to continue the game or finish the game is up to what is expected normally. I do not know why they cannot pay you for the second game. In my experience they do not pay a full game fee for the second game anyway, but they would not pay me just one game. And in my state I could file a report to get what I got for my contract. This is why I hate doing things that are not on the contract.

Peace

Get better a directive from your controling authority. Three innings isn't a game in anyone's books. If it's five, and tied, you keep playing just as you would seven. Why wouldn't you?

My son coaches JV ball, and is a pretty decent umpire himself. I can't imagine what he's do if umpires just walked off the field in a tie game. Oh wait, yes I can. Folks keep score and standings in JV, too. And sometimes coaches jobs are on line because if it. Unless you have some sort of direction to end the game because it's tied, the default would be to keep playing. I'm sure the coaches were pissed that you guys just walked off, and directed the school not to pay.

What was so important that you had to leave and what difference does it make what level Ball it is? If you don't want to do JV, go home after the Varsity game. You signed up to umpire a game and because you didn't take the time to go over the rules or modified rules at the begining of the game is not the coaches or players fault. It was yours.

You should be paid for what you did but, it was obvious that the JV teams were well aware of your attitude twoards doing their games.

If the varsity game had been tied after 7 innings, would you have ended the game?

Absent specific instructions to the contrary, start the sixth inning. And I agree, you seem to be treating the JV game as a glorified scrimmage. I can guarantee the coaches and players are not.

I wouldn't pay you either (again, absent specific instructions to the contrary).

If I were the AD, I woule make sure you never worked a game at my school again.

If I were you, I'd plead temporary insanity, apologize for my behavior and donate my varsity check to the JV team.

That's a pretty good plan. I'd recommend the same. You could even throw you scheduler under the bus by saying "We were told.......". Put that in a your note, along with the donation to the school's AD.

Not Insane
 

The problem is that if I was temporarily insane, then I must be permanantly insane. Don't you guys realize that this is a JV GAME. Who cares that there is not a winner. We were on our way to a smooth game, when the fifth inning seemed to take forever and then they expect us to stay to watch a bunch of non-skilled kids play extra innings. I'm not doing it. And I'm going to get my money one way or another.

Bet you dont, and I would imagine if your state is anything like Illinois, you will probably be reprimanded by your state association. Good luck getting any more games in your general location. You think we officials talk, coaches are like teen age girls. Unless you are pulling everyone's chain here, you my friend are a cancerous tumor on the body of officiating.

The players, the coaches, the parents, the schools, the ADs...those who pay you.

No, they expect you to officiate the game, which in baseball, unless Bud Selig is around, includes extra inning if the score is tied after the scheduled regulation last inning.

Then you should find another hobby...one that pays you for not completing the accepted task appropriately.

The only issue I would have is did you not agree to the terms before the contest what was to happen? I have worked JV games where the terms were very clear they were not playing more than a few innings. But then I ask if they expect to play "extra" based on the score. Really no one here can say what you should or should not do unless they are in your area and are aware of the standards. I do agree, this was a JV game and right or wrong it means nothing. And it is not uncommon in my experience that coaches want to get out of there more than the umpires. I just think the expectations should have been clear before the game and then you would have probably a better case.

Peace

And will probably be the last $ you get from that school.

You came on this board and asked if you should get paid. The overwhelming majority on this board say that you and your partner are in the wrong, yet you don't like the answers you've received and you are still are on your high horse.

You've made yourself bigger than the game. To me, that's a real shame. :cool:

No disagreement here... you must be permanently insane.
I don't care who wins ANY game that I officiate, but that doesn't mean that I don't stay around until the game is over and a winner has been determined (with the exception of a few "no extra innings/overtime" rec leagues that I work). Varsity, JV, 9th grade, 7th grade, 11U, whatever.

You're not there to watch the kids play extra innings, you're there to apply/enforce the rules fairly and evenly. And what difference does the skill level make? In most cases the highly skilled varsity player (or not, I've seen some very unskilled varsity games) was once an unskilled JV player.

And, if you have that attitude about it, you're probably going to tumble to the very bottom of your assigner's list, and stay there for a LONG time.

The only way you should get paid is if it's the accepted practice by all in your area that no extra innings/overtimes are played in sub-varsity contests...and I'd guess it isn't, because that kind of policy would have been known beforehand by the coaches and they wouldn't have acted so surprised when you walked from the game.

Besides that, I think your attitude towards the sub-varsity game is all kinds of wrong.

I'm surprised that as an official YOU don't recognize that the outcome of the game is important to the JV players. I suppose it could be that in your area the players and coaches at the JV level don't care, but I think it's highly unlikely.

In our area the JV players play the game with the same competitive spirit that the varsity players do. The high school teams are made up of players who have played with and against each other since tee-ball in youth leagues, and there's a good amount of pride and bragging rights involved in the games. The skill level isn't the same, but it's not like you're going from excellence to "Keystone Cop" baseball.

I suggest, as others have suggested, that you re-check your thought process on these games, and that you apologize to those you've wronged.

Tim.

If you feel that this level of ball is beneath you, then don't accept the assignment in the first place (unless you're just more concerned about sucking up an easy paycheck).

Every game should get your best effort- even the crappy ones that might run a little bit longer than normal. To me, "best effort" doesn't include walking off before the game reaches it's conclusion.

This contradiction always makes me scratch my head: Guys chomp at the bit all winter long to get out on the ballfield, then once the games get going they're hellbent to get them over with and hit the road as fast as they can. You're supposed to like umpiring. Why not stick around and enjoy it a few more minutes?

Did you have a hot date something?

Respect the game and its participants. While this JV game may not mean much to you, I can guarantee you it means a lot to the kids playing. I always try to remember the game is for the kids; I am just there to make sure that it is played fairly and safely.

You should just quit. You treated nobody involved with respect, including yourself. Sounds like you umpire only for a paycheck.

I umpired a 5-inning JV game last year as part of a DH because of a wet JV field. First JV game I worked in a long, long time and it was not well played. But I agreed to work it and I gave it the same effort I gave the varsity game before it. And actually it was supposed to be seven innings and the teams decided after 4 they were going to play "one more inning." And had it ended tied, I would've asked the teams if they were going to play extras, not assume they weren't going to because "nobody cares."

If they didn't care, they wouldn't keep score. Or they wouldn't play.

Who do you think will be playing varsity in a year or two? Who do think will be coaching a varsity team in a few years or will be the athletic director of a school? Bridges burn where you least expect them to burn.

AH ... so you haven't taken enough flogging already... OK, I'll pile on since you don't get it yet.

JV is not a scrimmage. "Who cares that there is not a winner?" Every single player, parent, coach, and fan at that game cares. Non-skilled? If the game is not worth you deigning your time to officiate from on high, perhaps you should pass these games on to umpires who give a sh!+. You're "not doing it?" You are a condescending a$$ that doesn't deserve to be on the field. That clear enough for you?

Unless I'm told before the game that we are playing 5-innings DROP DEAD (which does happen, although rare)... you are there to officiate a game. When a baseball game is tied at the end of regulation, what do you do? LEAVE is not the right answer.

I would never have you come back to work either, and if I was your scheduler, you'd be done in my area as well.

As to your pay, there's no way in he!! you're getting a paycheck from me if I'm the school, and there's no way I'm even asking the school about it if I'm your scheduler (in fact... as the scheduler, I'd be calling the school immediately to apologize profusely for your completely unacceptable behavior).

Actually, if the contract included both games, I wouldn't pay him for the varsity game either.

I can see doing that just to make a point. I suspect, however, that since the contract likely states the amount for the V game and another amount for the JV (mine do), if you ended up going to court or arbitration over this, he'd probably get paid for the V game.

Interesting thought though if it just said, "We will pay $80 for a V and JV game on X date".

You obviously never played baseball at the JV level, or any sport for that matter. The outcome of the game sure as hell matters to them, as others have said, your flaw was not agreeing to specific terms prior to the JV game.

If you are only there for the money, you made a poor choice because you will certainly be making less of it after this episode.

Why are you doing HS ball in the first place? Everyone knows that the only "skilled" players are in the major leagues! :p

umpire99. you need to turn over, so you can get cooked on both sides.

or....should we stop feeding the trolls? hmmmmmmm....

If you're that much bigger than a JV game, then don't accept the assignment.

Edit: BretMan beat me to the same thought.

Should we get paid?
 

U99,
If you are going to ask a question on this board, don't moan and groan at the answer you get. There are members who have a lot more experience than you or me. Either man up or find something else to do.

Bingo !!!

I wonder if this guy "kept his mask on while he handled the coach" in this matter.

I work Class 3 and 4 high school games (Two highest classes), and before every varsity game we ask what length of JV game will be played. Usually it is 7 innings or two hours, but some only play 5 innings. We always assume they will play extras if needed. I did one Class 2 game last spring, and some of the smaller schools play 3/3/3 (3 runs or 3 outs for 3 innings), but in this game they wanted to play 5, so we did. We were tied after 4 so I asked both coaches what they wanted to do if we were still tied after the 5th. They wanted to play one extra inning, so we did and went on with it.

U99, you're not there to decide what length of game they play. If they want to play extras, play extras. They don't expect a refund from you if there is a run rule and you get the varsity game done in 5 innings. Finish the game, take your check, and go home.

STOP IT RIGHT NOW!! You are not temporarily insane and you are not permanently insane; you are not insane period! What you are is one big A$$HOLE who would be doing the officiating profession a great service by NEVER officiating or umpiring again! I am going to stop at this point because right now I feel like I would love to take a bat (per Al Capone in The Untouchables) to you. This is no way for me to start such a lovely day here in Toledo, Ohio.

MTD, Sr.

I second that thought.:mad:

I'm starting to think the person who says this is a troll is spot on. Nobody could be this stupid, really.

If you were working for my assignor with this attitude you'd be fired. 5innings, 7 or 9 if the game is tied you play on.

Sorry that you have to begin your days there. Nobody should have to suffer like that!;)

A quick peek at his prior posts confirms such a suspicion.

Well, give him credit for being a bit more subtle and clever than most of the trolls around here. ;)

based in fact...
 

troll maybe , but we all know these types are based in fact........I had a member of my HS association walk off the field after a 5 inning Varsity mercy killing and refuse to do the 5 inning JV game.......

In our area, it is understood that you will do the varsity game to whatever ending....5-7-9+ innings....then as many JV innings as you can get in....usually 5 Varsity then 5 JV....7-Varsity -3 JV ...

handed over the balls and left.....said noone told him about JV....and he wasnt staying.....(which was BS....).....we are told when there is no JV......

I know, I know. That's what I get for marrying a Toledo native. LOL

MTD, Sr.

Well, that just makes you a JV umpire then, doesn't it? Do your job.




So what? I mean, they have to put with your umpiring, right? You're getting paid for the days worth of work, no matter the smoothness, or skill level, right? If this is beneath you, don't work youth ball at all. But don't complain about it, then walk off the field.

I know some guys here have called you an arrogant dick (oh, they didn't. My bad), but you have to see their point of view. Most of us have had kids playing at the level, and would appriciate your attitude toward them, or the game.

+1000

Pay- My advice would be to make sure it is spelled out ahead of time in your contract how many games and the fee. I am fortunate that our contracts specify this exactly and if I were not paid correctly it would be rectified within 24 hours. If you are calling a V/JV doubleheader you should be paid for both games.

Calling the game- Usually not before the V game but definitely before the JV game we speak to the coaches to make sure what they are wanting. A lot of times in JV coaches here want free substitution, bat all 11 kids, etc. It is a non-varsity contest so we work with the coaches to make this a learning experience for the kids. That being said I have seen many JV games end in a tie because that is what the coaches want. We rarely play extras in JV but this is not our decision. If they want to play to a winner, we stay. Personally, as a fan of the game, I make it clear to the coaches I am staying if they want to keep playing even if it was stated that we were only playing 5 or 3 no matter what. Extra innings are exciting, even in a crappy game. The coolest thing is agreeing to play only one more inning. That leads to some fun stuff!

Dude, as far as I'm concerned, you just up and quit. I wouldn't pay your happy butt, either. If noboby cares if there isn't a winner, then why the hell keep score? Another thing. If I was your partner, I would have stayed, and worked the game and never worked with your sorry, lazy behind ever again. You're a disgrace to the profession.