LLWS and replay
 

First, not being a troll. I would like a serious discussion.

Second. I have many, many other problems with the umpire system in LLWS.

Now, what is the point in even having umpires? Why don't we just let someone in a replay booth call everything? Now that may sound rediculous, but in the games I've watched with my son replay is waaaaaay overused. In one game they returned from a commercial break and were complementing the PU for going to the replay on a play at the plate WITHOUT THE COACH EVEN CHALLENGING. Are you serious? Why not just call time and go find out?

I see why they have replay though since we have seen some obviously terrible, terrible calls. Getting on my soapbox here, but I don't fell LLWS thinks much of their umpires anyway thus the major replays. None of us do this for the money but as has been said before here, our time has got to be worth something. Unless it has changed since a buddy of mine did LLWS a few years ago they are not paid. Feel free to correct me if it has changed. Maybe partly becasue of the lack of pay we see some absolutely terrible positioning and mechanics leading to these bad calls. We are talking about rookie camp level stuff here like plate mechanics, the guy who took the banger at the plate from up the 3BL (not 3BLE) but actually up the line, and my favorite the pitcher fielding the bunt on 1BL who muffed it and tripped the runner where the PU just froze and 1BU called the pitcher for interference. Wow. I say respect what your umpires are worth, pay them a nominal fee to cover expenses, and maybe just maybe we don't need to review every stinking call. Rant off.

I won't even bother to get into the selection process or the mistakes made. We've all seen the umpiring. But I think the money/pay is a red herring.

The money has virtually nothing to do with it. Some expenses are covered. They are given a per diem for meals and I know some districts reimburse gas money. All are put up in their own hotel rooms at the series, too.

I got money from the District to cover my fuel costs (I drove to Maine). I got a hotel room (where my family stayed the entire week). I got 2 meals a day covered. I looked at it as a subsidized vacation.

I agree with Rich. Pay isn't the main issue, its the selection criteria (or lack of same). Implement a rigorous, merit-based selection process that brings the best to Williamsport, and the best will aspire to get there regardless of pay.

But, apparently too many LL lifers have to be paid off with a Williamsport trip because of their decades of service. That model worked in the past, but when the only aspect of the LLWS that remains stuck in the 1970s is the umpiring, something needs to change. When replay continually overturns on-field calls, it gets harder and harder to ignore.

Speaking of which, that umpire that charged in and killed a fair ball hitting the 3B bag was a doozy. I bet he wished there was a hole he could climb into...even my daughter said that that should be made into a "Wanna Get Away?" Southwest Airlines commercial :D

That umpire worked in the minor leagues and works D-1 baseball.

I took my son to watch the LLWS games last Friday. One of things we both noticed was that during the conference to see if another umpire had a better view, fans around us were receiving texts and phone calls regarding the play in question from people watching the game on TV. The fans at home have already seen the slow motion replay and know the result. Fans were yelling to the manager to challenge calls.

Six umpires is way too many for a small diamond game. We saw umpires almost getting hit by throws, getting in the way of fielders and almost contacting base runners. It sounds like all of the umpires have a great deal of experience, however I don't know how many six man crews they get to work with prior to umpiring the LLWS.

The idea that lack of pay does not affect the quality of umpires is really rather silly. Sure, there are exceptions - Rich being one. But when you don't pay from the very beginning... a vast majority of the umpires who care enough to work at the vocation will migrate to where they can make some money. Thus, the pool of people that LL has to choose from is inherently of less quality than the pool of umpires in general.

One would think that they STILL have enough good umpires to pull from - and perhaps the selection process is an additional hindrance. But the INITIAL problem is the lack of pay.

So? Plenty of guys get into the minors over superior competition because the have pleasing personalities and don't carry the legal and ethical baggage PBUC abhors. Same in D1 and the NCAA.

Umpiring is not a strict meritocracy at any level, so LL is no different. World Series assignments at every level are as much about personal relationships and representing the sanctioning body the way it wants to be represented as about competence, which typically has to be only acceptable.

Working pro ball or D1 is not prima facie evidence of excellence.

Publius,

While it is not conclusive evidence, it is, in fact, prima facie evidence.

I would have expected a Roman such as yourself to know that. :rolleyes:

JM

Maybe to those who don't pay close attention.

Helluva brain fart, then.

I don't necessarily disagree that six is too many. But, let's say we dumped the two guys standing in the outfield twiddeling their thumbs most of the game. How would that have any bearing on the other four "almost getting hit by throws, getting in the way of fielders and almost contacting base runners"? :confused:

I don't work on small diamonds, but I would think three umpires would be enough for any LL game. If three can handle NCAA games and MiLB games, I think three can handle 12 year-olds.

Let's just go with one to keep the game moving and they can review every call and flash the correct call on the scoreboard. Maybe we can put a clicker in every seat so the crowd can vote? Sort of a "poll the audience". We can give the coaches 3 polls per game. Get the crowd more involved. Then we can have more debates about the "expected" call vs. the "correct" call!

Honestly, he was probably bored silly. Six umpires, you don't get to call anything all game, suddenly, something happens.

Happens to most all of us sometime or another.

If he's used to kids that shave, this game must have been a crawler.

Thanks
David

BretMan, I can see your point because the base umpires were the umpires getting in the way, not the line umpires. Eye contact and communication between umpires is very important, especially when working with larger crews. This may take longer when the crew members are not familiar with each other or the six man system. That, along with the small field confines made it look like it was difficult to potentially make a call and get inside while avoiding incoming throws, runners and fielders.

Why get inside, though? It's just as easy to get an angle from the outside and, bonus, you're not in the way of the players.

Rich, from what I've seen the 2B umpire (not 1B & 3B umpire) busts inside on balls hit to the outfield. I'm not sure if he/she has any coverage responsibilities regarding fly ball/trouble ball coverage to the outfield with a six man system in Little League. Most of the issues with almost getting hit by throws, and interfering with fielders and runners were on plays around second base. A lot of people in a small space.

Not really... think of softball, also played on a 60 foot diamond. In any number of man mechanics, SOMEone is going to be in that inside area on balls hit to the outfield. There's plenty of room. The issues around 2nd have nothing to do with 6-man mechanics being used where they shouldn't, but rather due to untrained umpires who have not worked together not knowing what to do or where to be.

There's no need to bust anywhere. Go opposite the ball, make sure you're out of the way, and if necessary, make a call -- even from the outside. False hustle to get inside at the cutout before the ball comes in. Unnecessary.

I completely agree and I'm glad someone else has said it. If you have to work a four man crew on the small diamond, there's no reason for anyone to be on the inside except the PU. You can make calls as easily from the outside with proper positioning without having to bust inside. It's too messy to have umpires moving inside on that small of a field.

Tim.

I don't have a problem admiting that I made a mistake taking a play I had no business calling. However, I also will not make myself out to be something I am not...... which is perfect. Replay is what it is. Little League has choosen to implement this system for whatever the reason. My guess is that these teams have played long and hard to get to The Series and shouldn't have anything taken away from them at the very end.

Either way, I had the time of my life...minus one call. BTW Even professionals make mistakes....right? The rest of the tournament went great and I had the privilege of calling the International Championship. I have seen what the Little League program can do to change peoples lives for the better...first hand. It's way more than just people scratching each others backs. Love to work with you sometime.

I do not work D-1. Have worked in the minors. Love to hear more about PBUC from you and compare experiences. Do not claim to be the best...just do what I can. Again, I think the philosophy of Little League Baseball and the manner in which it is implemented are misunderstood.

Most, if not all, of the teams are all-star teams made up of players off of different teams in a given area. These teams don't play together all summer for the most part.

Actually, a great deal of these players are on travel teams that play together or against each other year round. However my statement was pertaining to, in California, teams play 3-5 games in District, Section, SUb-Division, Division, Regional Tournaments, then the World Series. Shame to play 15 games to get to the Series to have an incorrect call knock you out of Series contention.

It's 12 year-olds playing baseball. Life isn't always fair. Missed calls happen. It's only a big deal because the LLWS is on TV and everyone makes it a bigger deal than it really is.

I'm with you. It's only a big deal because it's on TV and LL has decided to make it a big deal. 7 other LLI World Series are played and *none* have instituted replay, not even in their televised championship games. Life seems to go on.

I agree. However, some believe that replay is a slap in the face to umpires and to a certain extent I might agree. LL has chosen to implement instant replay as "an extra set of eyes". Of course there will be other interpretations as in other posts. Once again, the answer isnt paid experienced umpires. LL is a volunteer organization and the volunteers are the ones who deserve the honor and privilege, not those who feel their skill level warrants a complete overhaul of the LL volunteer umpire system.

Further, the negativity expressed in some posts regarding volunteer umpires is deplorable. Umpires are supposed to be a fraternity or brothers who help each other get better. The simple fact of the matter is that experience cannot prevent mistakes or a laspes in concentration. Even guys who work everyday in Professional Baseball kick calls every now and then. That was my point.

ô!ô
 

As I have noted before:

Volunteer Little League Umpiring = "Glamorous Baby Sitting"

JMO

T

+100!!!!

You know me and you know I work LL and worked one of the eight World Series tournaments this year -- I'd hope that people that know me and have met me (and/or have seen me umpire) would stop and think, "Hey, Rich does this. There are good umpires that work LL games." Guess not. Your blanket generalization notwithstanding, I guess if I should ever be fortunate enough to be selected for Williamsport I'll have to listen to people on this and other forums say how I'm just a glorified babysitter. That's OK with me.

I don't personally know THoy -- I know he was the third base umpire who called the ball foul that hit the bag. I know he was a minor league umpire and a guy who has owned his mistake. And all of us have made similar mistakes before -- only a few get to make them in front of a nationwide audience.

BTW, I was watching the Phillies/Braves last night. Dale Scott was on the plate, Jerry Meals at first. Ball hit up the line, fielded by Ryan Howard a few feet in front of the bag. Scott (from the plate) pointed fair, Meals pointed foul.

ô!ô
 

Rich:

I have met you, you watched me work and we have had a few (err, many) adult beverages together.

You know that I respect you greatly.

All being said, I have been the critic of Little League Baseball from day one on this board.

I find the LLWS as one of the worst explotations of children EVER. I hate the "Worldwide Leader" as a general statement and find no redeeming social value of what they do with the LLWS.

Again, all that being said: People that give away a skill set to an association that makes HUGE money (or soccer moms that buy $300 bats) are doing a tremendous disservice to umpiring.

When a guy named Hoy comes on here and tries to take umpires to task for simply saying the truth it ruffles my hackle.

Having worked games with over 50,000 screaming fans in attendance really changed nothing when I worked a game.

T

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If it makes people feel better about their game to think this way than thats fine. When we volunteer umpire we help to give the kids a positive experience. The more we strive to be the best umpire we can be, the better the experience for the kids. The World Series is a place where the volunteer umpires are rewarded for their service and dedication. Opinions like the one above seem to reveal a disdain for the Little Umpire for reasons that I can only speculate. I am giving back to the program that gave so much to me and my family. Little League is my family as I have volunteered at the Western Region for over 20 years. So if what I do is "glorified babysitting" then so be it. I enjoy it, and I don't have to tell myself how good I am......I will let the kids, coaches, and evalutors be the judge of that.

The Little League World Series topped any level I have ever worked. It was an experience I will never forget as long as I live. I made friendships that will last a lifetime. I left everything I had to give on Volunteer and Lamade Stadiums and was not the least bit jeolous of my brothers who worked on Sunday. I enjoyed watching them from the stands with my family by my side. By not taking myself too seriously and following the main administrative directive of HAVING FUN...I did my best to provide those kids with the best quality umpiring that I was able to deliver. I only hope that my experience will inspire others to desire the World Series stage that I was fortunate enough to grace if only for a moment...Rich the Series is everything I have described and more. Let me know when you get the call....hopefully I can be there!

You don't have to speculate... you've been given the reasons. Multiple times no less.

Tim-

Like I have said before everyone is entitled to their opinion. With that being said, truth be told that umpires make mistakes (which ALL umpires do) IMHO they should not when "saying the truth" berate other umpires. Objectively speaking that only speaks to their own insecurities when it comes to umpiring. I am sure we could all watch each other work and pick each other apart, and I can only speak for myself when I say I would certainly not offer any "constructive criticism" unless it was requested. I am a big boy that certainly can handle criticism, however if people are going to throw bombs they should be prepared for the aftermath.

I am certainly and sincerely glad that you have had the opportunity to work in front of large crowds on a consistent basis. It doesnt change the manner in which I work either, however one would certainly not be truthful in saying that it did not add a certain level of intensity to the situation. Further, to claim that it did not would also be an indication of not having done so.

To conlcude, if I wish to "give away" a skill set to an organization that is clearly my choice in doing so. If you, or anyone else has a problem with that then that is your/their problem. My issue is with the berating of other fellow umpires for whatever reason. I could drop names of people I have worked with and blah, blah,blah. I will say only this... I have worked and instructed with with several professionals...and they would never trash other umpires...professional or amatuer..for thier own enjoyment or bolstering of a false sense of confidence.

I apologize if I have offended you. However, I should be able to defend my position....should I not?

When did I say you offended me? Thin skinned today? You said, Why do you need to speculate? Those reasons have been given ad nauseum, and many times in this thread alone.

I have no problem with someone who is willing to invest their time in learning to umpire correctly choosing whatever organization they like to ply their wares. But honestly - if you're working LL for free, you should know that you're giving away services to a group who don't feel your services deserve pay. That says everything most officials need to know about LL. The umpiring is inherently and necessarily worse at LL, solely because this refusal to pay pushes a great number of umpires elsewhere. I'm not saying it's impossible to be good and work LL. Just that the overall general talent level is lower because the pool of umpires who will work for them is smaller.

I will say this. I worked LL some this summer. I worked because I was begged and even then - they paid me, whether they were supposed to or not. Working those games was miserable. One partner meant well but had ZERO training. Another partner was a truly nice guy, but had no clue and had no intention of learning either. He let a coach walk all over him the game I worked with him - and when we got together between games he INSISTED he would never eject a coach because "it's all about the kids." He didn't seem to understand or WANT to understand that allowing that kind of crap was not "for the kids" and he was doing himself AND all the umpires that followed him a huge disservice. I'm given to understand that this quality is about equal across that district.

Crowder-

I can sympathize with you and understand your position regarding a select population of LL umpires. However, you cannot cast that light onto all LL umpires. I have also worked with guys like that, but I used the "major" tournaments I have worked to hopefully inspire them to seek better training. Many LL umpires have attended professional schools to help themsleves and LL. I attempt to explain to them that their job will get easier if they get more training and ask questions. Umpires are a very valuable comodity in the LL program. Just because they don't pay them monetarily doesnt make the program an exploiter. LL has been a volunteer organization since its inception and that is why the Series is reserved for volunteers.

Everybody has different philosophies regarding umpiring. When I am on the field I handle what needs to be handled. If a LL guys dont want to jack a manger, coach, or player who has crossed the line...then bet your *** I will do it...and it will get done. If questions are asked after the game, then I will answer them respectfully saying basically I cannot allow that kind of thing when I am on the field with you. A big part of the LL program is exactly the issue you raise regarding proper behavior and ettiquette. And that is exactly the reason I do what I do....its not about you or me...its about the kids and the fact that no one is teaching them about respect. I assume that role when need be. We lead by example. Just because you get paid for something does not mean you are good at it, but when you volunteer you are always doing good. Some of you may find that to be a load of BS and thats fine, but there are hundreds of thousands of true blue volunteers who will disagree.

:d

Everybody umpires for different reasons. Even LL umpires.

Me, I do it to teach kids how to officiate games, and that includes all the ancillary life lessons that go along with it. I couldn't care less about working post season games. I'll do it, if it's what my Juniors want to do, and I can help them out.

To me, it's just another volunteer job at the field. No different than fixing the plumbing, mowing the grass, or working the grill. All jobs you can get paid for outside the park, that need to be done in order for a local league to function.

("Oh, but we go to special schools, and have lots of equipment". So does our plumber, and that reel lawn mower costs about $7K.)

Some leagues pay plumbers, grounds keepers, cooks, etc. Others can get find volunteers to do it. Every league is different.

Some guys like to think that umpiring is a God given skill, to be envied by all. Swell. I'm sure some plumbers think the same way. Honestly, it ain't that hard, nor complicated, unlike plumbing. Or maybe it's just that my job is tad more complicated than either.

Not that I'm a zealot for volunteer umpires. Every local league can do what they wish, and so can every umpire. I don't care. I have a skill that I can help out my local league with, so I do. To me, it's just like coaching a baseball team. I've got a bunch of kids I'm in charge of for the season, and I try to pass on baseball skills, and life lessons.

But in the end, for all us umpires, it just comes down to officiating a game. Some folks try to take it as serious as heart attack, but it's really nothing more than than.

Absolutely.

Never did. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not denigrating the umpires at all - I'm denigrating the organization and their methods of A) payment and B) selection (although only the former in this particular thread ... so far).

Let's make this clear for everyone. Little League does not preclude local leagues from paying umpires. There are no rules against it, nor have there been. It's up to each individual league to decide how they want to cover that particular duty. Again, it's no different than scorekeeping, working the snack bar, or mowing the grass. Some leagues pay, and others don't.

Now, if you want to work post season, then you've got to jump through certain hoops. Years ago, a post season selection was like a gold watch given for years of service. A "thank you" to guys who might be working their last games. The trouble started around 10 years ago, when more games were televised, and it became apparent that some of these folks were just not up to the task any more. Things have evolved since then, and performance is more of a key ingredient.

Oh, you've still got to pay your dues, and part of it is being a volunteer. See, with so many folks vying for those spots, LL can be picky on who they select. Pure volunteers is just an easy way to filter folks out. Out West, you're going to need to be an instructor, too. Other locations aren't as picky, as they don't have the huge pool to draw from.

For those that like to smack volunteer umpires for doing a paid job, and thus diluting the job market, consider this: Would you be as critical of a guy who donates his skills as a carpenter, and helps build a clubhouse for his kid's league?

I don't really have a problem with umpires themselves who want to volunteer. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. The problem I have is with the LL organization itself. It's insistence on volunteers for postseason, the insane rules they use, the exploitation of kids on TV so they can make money, etc etc. Plus, the glorification by LL and ESPN of volunteer umpires is kind of goofy. It's like they're trying to convince viewers that the volunteers are somehow better because they don't take money and "Do it for the kids". The whole thing is just a circus.

$$$$$
 

That's the problem I have with the so called LLWS. My son and I were discussing this and as I told him there are many LLWS going on, they just choose to televise this one because of the international flavor?? i guess.

And there are what ten or twelve maybe more leagues that have "small ball" World Series and only a few of them make it to TV at all.

LL is lucky because ESPN buys into all the hoopla and LL makes a $$$ killing every year off of this one series.

Kudos for LL being smart enough to take advantage of this.

Thanks
David

Again. Well put.

It is quite expensive to maintain the regional complexes in the 8 regions (2 are combined so 6 complexes) not to mention the International Complex. There are 8 World Series sites as well to maintain. The teams are brought to the Series on Little Leagues dime. The teams are fed 3 meals a day in the cafeteria as well. Russell Athletic covers the uniforms and Easton supplies brand new equipment for the Series. The other World Series have a few televised games as well as regional play coverage. There are International teams at those tournaments as well.

My apologies I misunderstood what you meant by inherently. If you watched the Series this year the umpiring was better than average if you were objective. There were some mistakes as with ANY tournament (BTW CB Bucknor botched a trapped ball last night and called it no catch (edit)- It wasnt clearly obvious, but I noticed it right away) then the RF 'er came up throwing to the plate to cut down a runner who wasn't tagging. I know we are talking about LL umpires, but it happens at every level. Some people just are not able to objectively admit this. Does it happen more often at LL...yes, but hopefully it can be improved. However, it is farse to say that payment for services rendered will accomplish the improvement.

Unless Little League has some kind of backwards bizzaro world business model, I'm sure that whatever expenses they incur to hold this tournament are well-covered by the television revenue.

They might be doing all this "on their own dime"...but it's a pretty big dime!

I did not mean to infer that Little League is struggling as an organization. Further, I did not mention the European regional sites either. That being said what is the problem with an organization such as LL making money and improving its product? If we are talking about paying umpires, whats to say we shouldn't pay the coaches, managers, scorekeepers, etc. It will be a matter of time before we are talking about paying the players.

Apology accepted. I did not say each individual umpire was bad ... I said the overall quality of the umpiring was bad. And if you feel the umpiring was better than average, I suggest strongly that you get out more. The umpiring on TV was an embarassment to those of us who do the job, and on the whole brought the perception of umpires across the board down. Go work a district tournament in ANY other organization (not to mention a regional or state) and you'll see better umpiring than you saw on TV. Given that you work LL, you are probably completely unaware of the HUGE number of poor positioning, poor (or unnecessary) rotations, etc that we saw. I'm not talking wrong calls... I'm talking wrong calls because the umpire was not where he should have been, or was making a call that belonged to someone else better placed to make the call.

Really? I'm sure he's aware since he was a *minor league umpire*.

And I work LL, etc. and I would like to think I'm quite aware, too.

Broad brush, again.

That's just awful.

Yup. Too bad, too. I always thought better of him.

We have 5 umpires in our district who I'd put up against any umpires. All 5 have worked college schedules and deep into the HS playoffs -- 4 of us have worked one of the LL World Series tournaments (2 at the LLWS). July and August are dedicated to LL for all of us. I guess we magically turn into crappy umpires the second they stop paying us to work games and we put on a LL patch.

I was at the LLWS. I worked with all the gentlemen, and one lady (who was awesome). It was a good group of veteran LL umpires I would be proud to work with anytime. So, I would have to disagree with you. And honestly, I would love to come and work with you sometime. Further, when we were done I would not rake you over the coals. I would buy you a cold one and a plate wings!

As far as positioning goes you have a point to a certain degree. The small diamond often limits the amount of angle you can get on a given play. I was blocked out on a play at first by the F4 (2ndbaseman), but I made an adjustment and got the play right. However, there we those that were out of position at times. As a whole, the umpiring was no where near the level that has been described in this forum. A few mistakes and some controversy, but nothing that cost any team a chance at the title.

It would certainly be nice if people could understand that umpiring, like anything else, requires constant self analysis and adjustments. You cannot position yourself in the same place for every play. You must react to each individual play. If you can see a play clearly from one position that may not be textbook, then what is the difference? If you are nailing the plays from that position then why change? If you are kicking plays from the proper position, what good is proper position?

I did witness plays that were called incorrectly. One of those plays was mine. I owned during the game, after the game, and right now. There was not as many blown calls as people many want to believe. Maybe people should be offering possible solutions instead of ripping people apart?

Obviously what I said is being taken in a way I didn't intend... but after rereading I'm not seeing it. I've repeatedly said that there are good umpires and bad umpires in LL --- just that the selection pool in general is worse. What did I say to make you think poorly of me?

(Whatever it was, I apologize).

Edit to add: I've not read every post this guy has ever made, perhaps not even every single post of his in this thread... I was not aware he is (or says he is) a minor league umpire. I based my statement on his direct quote that the umpiring in this year's LLWS was not bad... I think it's clear that it was bad - very bad. Perhaps my assumption of the reason he was unaware was wrong ... but I'm honestly flabbergasted then that ANY minor league umpire could have watched this year's LLWS and called that umpiring "not bad".

In any case, I apologize for the broad brush.

I've been milling over whether to say this or not, and I hope it's not taken the wrong way, but I don't think John Hosler was up to the task. He looked out of his element.

Tim.

That's not what I meant, and I think you know that.

I don't recall ripping anyone apart. I do recall offering possible solutions multiple times. WTH are you talking about? I'm not even talking about bad calls - I'm talking about bad umpiring. Seriously - do you REALLY think the games were umpired well? No one else I know does.

As to solutions, I'll recap, but this thread is riddled with solutions.
1) Pay your umpires. Not just sometimes if certain places feel like it... Always. This will ensure you're talent pool is as large as possible and put your association on a level with everyone else.
2) Train your umpires. Not just an optional occasional training session. REQUIRED training that is tailored toward it's audience. I assure you that the first clinic I attend each year is completely different from those before District, State, etc. And it's constant... not just once, far away from anyone, held by some local yokel who has no clue (which was my experience in the 1 and only LL training I've been to).
3) Fix the selection process. This is a problem all over, but it seems worse at LL --- possibly due to 1 and 2 above. The rookie with 15 consecutive rookie seasons under his belt gets the call - but the 3rd year guy who attends everything he can possibly attend, reads posts here, etc - he gets nothing.

I'll apologize again for what appeared to be an erroneous broad brush ... I should not have assumed your statement that the umpiring at the LLWS was not bad was due to a lack of perspective. I don't know what it WAS ... other than that it was wrong.

As an aside ... if the best one can say about an organization's showcase event is that it "wasn't bad" ... don't you consider that a problem in and of itself? At such an event, one would hope that the impartial viewer (or the umpire viewer) would come away saying, "Wow, those guys were great".

Whether that is true or not doesnt take away from who John is as a person or a LL volunteer. Further, be advised that I am not inferring ANYTHING! That aside Jon made some greats calls that others might have missed under the circumstances. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to know that the calls you make could be reversed. LL did a great job preparing the umpires for replay and frontloaded the recommended approach to it. That being said, I think Mr. Hosler gave his best to the task. I came to know him as a person so I know this to be true. John answered the call and gave his best effort. Until you are standing on the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium in front of 15,000 fans and on National televison you cannot assess Johns performance...that has been my point all along. Some will never have the opportunity to experience this because of their deploration of the LL program. I, myself, learned more about my own game in Williamsport...

I would work with John Hosler anytime!

This is why I was hesitant to make the comment about John Hosler. Your defense of the man's umpiring abilities is you speaking with your heart and not your head. The man wasn't good.............period. This isn't a jab at the man's person, or a knock on the effort he put forth. He was there based on his volunteerism alone. Not based on his officiating prowess *combined* with his volunteerism. And as long as LL continues to overlook better, more qualified umpires who have also put in their time to the program, and instead chose to place umpires of John's caliber on national television, they're going to be continually criticized for it.

Tim.

As would I, but that doesn't mean he belonged on the stage LL placed him.

Tim.

Llws
 

On another umpire board, one of the members gave some insight to the LL Softball WS. Give us some insight as to how LL frontloaded the recommended approach and prepared umpires for replay. That may answer several questions that I and some other have.

Volunteering to officiate youth sports is admirable. My hat is off to those who do. And I agree we don't need to bash fellow umpires but I see that some of the LLWS umpires did exhibit a lack of training.

It is correct that anyone can miss a call now and then, but when it consistently happens because the umpire is out of position or has poor timing, well I just have to cringe.

And THoy, learn the difference between infer and imply. (Just had to say that)

A little confused (and trying very hard not to "bash")... in one statement you applaud LL's efforts to prepare umpires for replay, and in another you mention how much harder it is to officiate when you know replay is there...

To me, the existence of replay in these games is part of the problem. The fact that they need it as a solution both points out the problem (ineffective umpiring) and exacerbates it (making already unprepared umpires even more skittish).

So Mr. Hosler cannot be rewarded for his decades of volunteering for LL baseball because in the eyes of some he is not qualified? Or John can never work a Series if he cannot improve his skills? First, the LLWS has a ten year waiting list of volunteers ready to do the job. With that being said, LL does not need to change anything in regards to umpire recruitment. There are plenty of training opportunities out there and John has attended. That is the beauty of LL today. The players that cannot make travel teams can play, and those umpires that cannot get assignments can work.

Bottom line, LL is a organization that praises and honors its volunteers. Our payment is those special assignments like the LLWS's. There will always be those who will criticize others abilities or compare their abilities to those who are honored enough to be selected. However, I prefer to compare my abilities to my potential and how close I am to being the umpire I would like to eventually become, rather than criticizing others for giving themselves and their time to a program that honors them.

Thank Mr. Umpire Sir for the grammar lesson. Learn The Difference Between "Imply" and "Infer"

Honestly, that kind of says it all. Thank you sir.

LL officials outlined in a web conference the video replay procedure a month or so before the series. They explained the philosophy behind it as an "extra set of eyes". They explained which situations would be reviewable and which would not and why. LL officials explained that umpires did not have to be intimidated by video replay that was a tool for umpires as much as it was for managers to get plays right. We viewed the manner in which video replay was conducted in the 2010 Series and what changes were made to the procedure. It is in no way meant to undercut or demean any participant in the LLWS. As a matter of fact managers, coaches, players and umpires are instructed to reserve any emotional reactions to the result of a replay challenge (no cheering or fist pumping).

While I understand Mr. Hoy's post, I'm afraid I disagree with it. Some umpires simply do not have the necessary talent and ability and should not ever be assigned a WS event. An umpire under the current system must get a recommendation at a regional to move on to the next level. In my experience, that recommendation is little more than a rubber stamp.

For some, a state tournament should be a crowning achievement. For others, a Regional. For a few, the LLWS. There are a ton of umpires who work LL in this country. Only a couple get to go each year from a particular region. I'd prefer to see demonstrated umpiring ability be considered at least as much as volunteerism at the WS level.

I completely agree with you. The sad part is that so many agree with Mr. Hoy ... which speaks volumes.

I may also feel the same way to a certain extent, but rather than ripping the man I would attempt to find a solution. Perhaps candidates who apply for a Series with a DA endorsement should be evaluted before being selected. After the evaluation the candidate is recommended to a training before they can move forward or upward. Another suggestion may be that all candidate attend a required training after being recommended. If the candidate fails to demonstrate an ability to preform than more training is prescribed. Either way a volunteer in the program deserves a chance at a series.

A solution based approach is certainly a more positive than criticizing the entire system along with individuals. And as stated before talent and experience will be tested in these WS environments. Umpires miss calls when in perfect position for whatever the reason. I think what I enjoyed most about my particular experience was the absense of a ultra competitive environment among the group. We were a unit that hung out together after the games. No one sat around picking other guys apart. It was a group of geniune individuals who love the game and the craft. I know I have had a great deal more training than other guys not to mention experience, however it does not permit me to trash other umpires in the name of the profession.

We do differ, I think, in one regard. There are not enough spots available for everyone to work a LLWS. Look at the West region -- there are thousands of LL umpires who would probably love to go to WP and they get 2 slots a year. So in the next 25 years that's 50 umpires that go.

So the selection process shouldn't be based upon identifying the right "volunteer." It should be designed around finding the right umpires who volunteer. Plenty of LL umpires have quite a bit of talent now and I'd rather take a 10-year umpire that has demonstrated ability than a 30-year person who others feel should be given a gold watch.

My solution would be to "not recommend" more umpires at the state and regional levels. I get that DAs aren't going to be able to tell quality umpires from lesser quality umpires at times. But by the time an umpire gets to a state or a regional tourney, there should be someone there to evaluate. If they can't handle the WS then (in the opinion of the UIC of the tourney) there should be no recommendation given. The umpire is then free to attend training, get more experience (not the same amount year after year) and get better and THEN go back to the level where they weren't recommended and try again. It shouldn't ever be a gold watch for these guys.

I find it pointless to rip individual umpires and pretty tasteless to do so -- I'll point out errors in order to help others not make the same mistake. But it doesn't stop me from wondering how some (and I felt that way about a couple at my WS this year) made it through the process. Doesn't mean I would denigrate those people and that I would do anything but help them and work with them when we shared the field, but those thoughts did cross my mind.

You missed what I was trying to say, completetely. I'm not "ripping" John Hosler. And I thought I made that clear. What I'm "criticizing" (large difference), are his abilities on the diamond. You're looking at this with blinders on if you're unable to see that there are/were hundreds (maybe thousands) of other umpires just as dedicated to the LL program who would have been better suited for calling games on national television. And the criticism (ripping) of the LLWS umpire selection process that comes around each year with the event, is based largely in part on volunteers such as John Hosler being given a spot in Williamsport.

Tim.

You want to reward him for volunteering? Buy him a watch. Give him a dinner. Name the umpire room in his honor.

Assignment to the WS should be based on quality of umpiring performance, not years of volunteer service.

Do they simply name the longest chartered teams to the series, or do they have to earn their way there by performing better than others on the field?

Time to close the thread
 

It's getting old.

Rita

let the pidgeons loose!

I agree.