No interference called in the STL game.
 

Anyone catch the play during the Cardinals vs. Astros game last night where the thrown ball hit the on-deck hitter?

The Astros has bases loaded (maybe second and third). Base hit to CF. CFer throws home, obviously late. The ball gets past the catcher. The pitcher was backing up and was on line to get the throw.

The on-deck batter had moved up to direct traffic at the plate. He got between the throw and the pitcher and the throw hit him in the leg and changed direction, allowing the runner from second to score. It seemed that the interference was not intentional.

The umpires huddled and decided on a no-call. Seems that the first run should have scored, a dead ball called, and the other runner sent back to third. I don't think intent is a factor here.

Thoughts????

3.15

Interference by an authorized person. While the rule says it doesn't apply to teammates or coaches, the comment says what to do if the coach interferes. Another rule anamoly.

It also refefences 7.08(b) (Interference with a throw must be intentional) and 7.11 (vacate space needed to make a play).

Interfefence wasn't intenmtional.

ODB did not get in the catcher's way.

No call.

From your description, they got the call right.

7.08(b) is irrelevant as it pertains to interference by a RUNNER.

Here is the referenced 7.11. It says nothing about intent.

7.11 The players, coaches or any member of a team at bat shall vacate any space (including both dugouts or bullpens) needed by a fielder who is attempting to field a batted or thrown ball. If a member of the team at bat (other than a runner) hinders a fielder’s attempt to catch or field a batted ball, the ball is dead, the batter is declared out and all runners return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch. If a member of the team at bat (other than a runner) hinders a fielder’s attempt to field a thrown ball, the ball is dead, the runner on whom the play is being made shall be declared out and all runners return to the last legally occupied base at the time of the interference.

Note that this rule applies to hindering the fielder. If F2 had crashed into the ODB who failed to move, then this rule would apply.

So by that logic a player (who is not a runner) could INTENTIONALLY get hit with a thrown ball and nothing should be called. I don't think that is the intent.

The rules say a RUNNER cannot INTENTIONALLY interfere with a thrown ball. They also say that players and coaches who are not runners cannot HINDER a fielder's attempt at fielding a thrown ball.

I think it is a poorly written rule, and as has been pointed out, the comment addresses a coach (and invokes intent), although coaches are exempted in the rule and intent is not mentioned.

Uh, no.

Most baseball rules are written poorly. That's why the rulebook is not the end-all and be-all of proper umpiring.

Say F7 airmails a throw to home in a sac fly situation and it hits the ODB after sailing over F2's head. OBD is appropriately stationed to signal R3 whether to slide. Is that a dead ball? Interference? In the OP the protected fielder was F2 and the throw skipped past him after a bad bounce off the mound. R3 had already touched home before the interference. B/R trotted over to third as if he had been awarded the base. Did the deflected ball end up out of play?

Day game or night game?

Night game, and the umpires were wearing heather gray pants.

So, another game from the past. Your research is outsanding.

I'm with those that say they got it right. Good no call.

Link
 

I'm pretty sure BR trotted over to his coach or ball boy to hand him some equipment. He then went back to second.

Let me ask you this:

1. If the fielder had thrown the ball correctly and not off line, would the ball have hit the on-deck batter?
2. Was the on-deck batter doing what he was supposed to be doing when the off line throw hit him?
3. Did the on-deck intentionally put himself in position to get hit with that off line throw?
4. Did you notice that the PU almost got hit with same throw before the on-deck batter was hit?

Once you answer all of the above questions, you will realize that you are barking up the wrong tree looking for an interference call.

Try and remember that we umpires have to answer all of these questions within a fraction of a second to make the proper call.

Answers:

1. No
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes

If the errant throw had hit the PU instead of the ODB, would the ruling had been the same? I'd imagine so by Ozzy's criteria unless there is a specific rule that covers umpires. The throw could also have hit a catcher's mask, bat, or a detached helmet after the runner slid and it would still be a live ball, correct?

I thought you were such a rules person? A throw hitting an umpire anywhere on the field is a live ball.

I was at this game about 3 rows behind the first base dugout. They got the call right, and I had to explain this to about 30 people sitting near me after the play happened.

Well, I thought I knew the rules until I found this site and realized how much I don't know. OK, I think I gotcha here.....if a pitched (and I guess a thrown ball from a fielder) hits the PU such that it gets stuck in his paraphernalia, it's a dead ball, correct? I guess in the days of the balloon it might have happened every now and then, but I've never seen or heard of that happening - although I'm sure you guys have war stories where a ball somehow hopped into a ball bag or something.

As an Astros fan, I have always admired the St Louis fans for their knowledge and respect of the game and the opponent. I'd imagine several of those fans were quoting rules by number. Best fans in the game, bar none.

"Hitting" and "lodging" are two completely different things. Any thrown ball that hits an umpire is still alive. Any ball that becomes lodged on an umpire is a dead ball.

True that. It was my weak attempt at Boolean humor.

You said "an errant throw . . . "

A throw is not a pitch - which you can find in rule 2.00.

Without contradicting your point about Cardinal fans, Red Sox and Tigers fans are every bit as good.

'68 and '06--there's nothing like a Cardinals-Tigers World Series.

No doubt, but I've mainly followed the NL. I'll probably become a Cards fan if the Astros get shifted to the AL. I had the good fortune to see an NLCS game in StL in 1996 vs the Padres. Before the game I stopped by Shannon's. Next to me was a dad with two twenty-something daughters. I overheard them discussing the relative strength of middle relief of teams in the NL Central. I was quite impressed.

Too bad the Cardinals can't find a decent closer.

Let's make this easy.

Umpire Interference:

Plate Umpire: If the plate umpire interferes with the catcher's throw to retire a runner, that is interference.

Base Umpire: If a batted ball contacts the umpire in the field before the ball passes a fielder (other than the pitcher), that is interference.

Those are the only 2 ways an umpire can interfere. Thrown balls striking the umpire are nothing, pitched balls striking the umpire are nothing, deflected balls striking the umpire are nothing.

It is all in OBR 2.0(c):
Umpire’s interference occurs (1) when a plate umpire hinders, impedes or prevents a catcher’s throw attempting to prevent a stolen base or retire a runner on a pick-off play, or (2) when a fair ball touches an umpire on fair territory before passing a fielder.

Thanks Ozzy. I only recall U2 being in a position for batted ball interference. I just haven't paid attention to positioning with the 4 man crew.in MLB. Are there situations where U2 would be in front of F4/F6 - what do y'all call it - B or C position? I guess the B/R would be credited with a hit like RI - tough way to lose a no-hitter. Does this happen more with 2 and 3 man crews?

Yes. Without any 4-man experience, I know they put themselves in a "deep" B or C when there's R1 only (and probably anytime there's a runner on 2nd or 2nd can be stolen).

Yep. 10.05(a)(5): The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when a fair ball that has not been touched by a fielder touches a runner or an umpire.

Couldn't tell you for sure. In what I can tell, U2 is inside almost as much as a U1 or U3 would be (except R3 only), so I can't imagine it happens any less frequently.

I highly doubt that anyone was quoting rules in the stands.

Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball.....just ask them, they'll tell you about it.

Well, we know at least one guy who was (jeschmit) :-)