NF 2012 Rules Changes
 

2012 NF Baseball Rules

I am actually surprised this was not posted previously. Here it goes.

Peace

While I think it's nice for the umpires to not have to examine equipment before the game anymore, there's no question in my mind this reduces player safety. I've had to disqualify more cracked batting helmets than I can remember including helmets for the same team on separate occasions.

In my experience, coaches can't be trusted with this responsibility.

Very glad to see an end to equipment checks; I agree that should be the responsibility of the head coach.

Like the end to equipment checks as well. I'll just need to remember to add the question, "Is all equipment in accordance to NFHS rules" to my pregame meeting.

I am a little concerned about the announcement of developing a "tamper-evident protocol" for non-wood bats and have it implemented by 2015. 2012 is bringing in full BBCOR compliance, and this just sounds like a new compliance is heading our way in just three short years.

If they cannot be trusted, then they do not need to be working for a school. We should not have to be worried about something before the game. We do not go around and check all equipment in football and that is a much more violent sport. Of course if we spot check things, but we do not go over to every kid with a (football) helmet and see if they have a sticker or if everyone has a mouthpiece. This was always silly and not done properly by many either. Put this on the coaches. And a bat was not always about safety, it was about legality. If they bring in an illegal bat, then it should be noticed or pointed out during the game and the appropriate penalty should occur.

Peace

I'm thrilled. Now we can enter the field at the end of infield, go right to the plate, have the plate meeting, anthem, and go.

+1

Peace

Not. My. Problem.

I'm not getting all weepy about player safety. It's about time coaches are left with this responsibility. I'm just thrilled I'll never have to go into another dugout.

Fortunately, I didn't have to go into dugouts anyway. I always had the equipment to be used during the game brought outside of the dugouts.

Umpires have NO business in dugouts.

I too love the new rule.

Funny, NCAA Made this change a couple of years ago and there were no worries about not trusting coaches.

All I know is, it's about time! Thank you NHFS!

I agree, but they don't let me make the hiring decisions for the coaches. Hopefully, they will step up to their responsibilities, but somehow I doubt it.

I do agree that it should be the coach's responsibility; I've just seen a lot of irresponsible coaches.

I love the fact that we no longer have to roam the dugouts. Excellent rule change. Time for the coaches to be held accountable.

Hehehehe,
 

Actually on the ABUA website I asked:

"If you could change ONE NFHS Rule what would it be?"

The big winner was "no more checking hats and bats!"

I made the post as a little hint to what was coming down the line.

T

The new rule change states, I could have sworn that we already ask this of them, at least around here, we do.
Further -

However -

IOW - "I don't know Blue, go check them and see for yourself. I told them at the beginning of the season but don't do equipment checks each game."


It looks like they are moving towards the game clock rule that is used by the NCAA. The one minute rule was always encouraged but making it a point of emphasis for 2012 suggests that they want a ball called as penalty for non-compliance, no allowances made. Hmmm?

I predict some states will continue to require equipment checks.

Given the litigous world we live in, that seems likely, Rich. Consider the number of times I have had to tell coaches, "This helmet is broken, it's out.", only to hear, "Yeah, I don't know why he keeps bringing it out." and it is a no brainer. While many coaches are diligent and apologetic for equipment problems, some just see it as a nuisance. With the new bat and helmet rules for next year, it should be easier to do but we'll see.

I don't see how this is any different than the current 6-2-2c Exception:

The only difference is that relief pitchers brought in during an inning have one minute as well (before, it just mentioned 8 pitches). I don't see anything different.

I don't see a substantive difference, agreed, but I've taken all of the NCAA practices with the exception of using a stopwatch into my NFHS games and used them to keep things moving as well as possible. I'd be thrilled to add the watch.

I wonder if South Carolina will continue to check them, though. They seem to be 20 years behind any substantive rule change. :D

I am pleased that NFHS made the rule change. I am anxious to see it in the book with some accompanying case plays. The devil will be found in the details. It's still the NFHS, after all.

After playing and supposedly having crews checking equipment during 30-some regular and post-season games this year, plus 30-or-so more games in summer-ball played under the NFHS code, I still found an illegal bat at last night’s game, plus a cracked helmet (same team...go figure.)

The team’s summertime coach was surprised.

I would like to see an automatic ejection of the head coach as the penalty for discovering that his team used illegal equipment during a game after having declared at the pre-game conference that his team's, "... players are legally and properly equipped."

Yeah, like that'll ever happen.

I agree with Rich that some states will require this anyway. But like in football that is a much more violent sport and a sport that has much more required equipment and we do not go to every helmet and check those on a football team personally. So it might be a litigious society, but there are other areas where the officials never check this equipment other than a spot check and I cannot think of a single time someone got in big legal trouble if something went wrong. This puts the responsibly squarely on the coaches since they agree to what is to be used anyway. But then again the penalty for every kid that uses equipment that is illegal can go towards a coach being ejected. So the penalty is much harsher where in baseball we only can give an out or not use the equipment based on when it is discovered.

Peace

Were you ever required to inspect player equipment before football games? Since that answer is 'no', you are again attempting to compare things that aren't equal.

In high school baseball, for a number of years now, the onus for player safety has been firmly on the shoulders of the umpire(s). The 2012 rule change still provides for the umpires to inspect gear if the coach asks. Umpires are no longer required to do a pre-game check, that is all the rule states. We must ask for confirmation of the conditions but no penalty is mentioned.

As I and others have mentioned, the questions we ask of coaches at the plate meeting remain the same. This year I had players walk into the box wearing a broken helmet (one that I had removed pre-game), using an illegal bat (-10!) and wearing jewelry (too many times) AFTER THE COACH HAD STATED THAT ALL PLAYERS ARE PROPERLY EQUIPPED. The onus is still upon us. Coaches just want to get the game going and we'll agree with almost everything we ask of them. This may have been conceived with good intentions but unless some teeth are added it is a waste of ink.

That was my point. The only thing they are doing is EMPHASIZING the one minute time period. This is undoubtedly a precursor to an NCAA-like rule. Stopwatches will be a necessity or you will find some coaches hooting for a penalty at 61 seconds and umpires ill prepared to say that the time hasn't expired yet.

We are to review the equipment before the game and ask the coach the same things (in all NF sports BTW). So no it is not a complete unequal thing when the NF tends to review rules changes with other committees. For example the concussion language is the same language used in other sports. The old baseball rule was just silly to have when in other sports where the equipment is much more dangerous to the players we only ask the coach "Are your players properly and legally equip?" And if we discovered an illegal item we removed it in accordance to those specific sport's rules. A helmet in baseball rarely comes into play in a baseball game compared to football where every play might have some head contact.

I disagree when you said it was really on us. All we did was check before the game. During the game coaches had more knowledge what their players used or did not use more than us. And considering I have never had a single opposing coach ask to check the legality of the bat or helmet, this was a silly practices. We would just check before the game and unless something changed we would not know necessarily that they were using illegal equipment like a cracked helmet unless we spot checked it and saw the crack ourselves.

And the reason I mentioned football is the fact that is the same exact procedure that is used in that sport in the pre-game meeting that is also required with the coaches before the game. The difference is that we do not bring the coaches together to ask in the same meeting, but we still ask. And we do the same thing in basketball and I cannot think of a single other sport were the NF creates the rules for a particular sport (or in our state for that matter) that does not have the officials penalize or address illegal equipment after that meeting. This new baseball rule is more in line with other sports as if you work other sports you will realize they like to use something in one sport that works and require it in other sports. Mary Struckoff said as much when they consider new rules and she is a former IHSA Administrator and she is the current Rules Editor for Basketball as well as the NCAA Supervisor of Officials for NCAA Women's Basketball. That is why all this mess with the Appropriate Medical Professional was used in every single sport and the change in what how we remove players for a possible concussion. That is not just a baseball rule; it is a football, basketball, soccer, softball and volleyball rule. And soon to be an Illinois state law as to how we handle these things as well. This just puts baseball in the same category with other sports.

Peace

Not on this one, my friend. Not on this one...

Yes, Jeff, it is. They are unequal - 'complete' was not a word I used.

You are not required to check EVERY football helmet on every player, are you? In baseball, EVERY helmet must be checked by the umpire pre-game. Every bat was to be checked as well.

Concussions? Huh? I don't mention them at my plate conferences. If you do, it is unnecessary. It is not relevant to our discussion though.

As for the "Are your players properly and legally equipped?", we were REQUIRED to ask that for many years and still are.

Sigh. It is pointless to argue with you. There is a reason why helmets are employed in baseball. Clearly you believe otherwise.

No, Jeff, you are wrong.

We were REQUIRED to see that players were compliant with safety standards. The rule book mandated it and our interpretation meetings stressed the need to do this check. The responsibility was entirely ours.

Once a game starts, most coaches are not aware of what players use for equipment. I see every batter when he steps into the box. I can see his helmet, bat and if he is wearing anything illegal. Can't you?

I suggest you read up on why we checked bats. Coaches didn't know, care or bother. There are numerous articles online about illegal bats being used this year and what happened.

I have had a couple coaches ask me to check bats that were involved in games. One was the -10 I mentioned in an earlier post. Maybe you have heard of Phil Garner, Chris Sabo, Albert Belle, Wilton Guerrero, George Brett, Sammy Sosa or Robin Ventura using illegal bats. I know I have.

No. You simply showed why the new rule will be useless. In football, all you do is ask for a coach to confirm that his players are compliant. You did not physically inspect their equipment, as we were required to do by the rules in baseball. Jeff, you are comparing unequal things.

I could care less about basketball, name dropping or the other non-sequitors you employ. The fact remains that the new rule is useless in its present form. Why ask a coach to confirm player equipment if there is no penalty involved for him/her? Why not simply call the game without the inquiry since they won't have consequences? That is the way we officiate in collegiate and OBR ruled ball. Asking a question of a coach that is unnecessary is pointless.

Isn't there an Illinois forum you two can go to since you derail every thread on this board with this nonsense?

Thank God for the ignore feature. You can still see the poster's name, but are spared their posts.

Some, however, don't take to being ignored too well. The last poster I added to ignore then proceeded to PM me. I asked him to stop. He PM'd me again. I asked again that he stop. He PM'd me a third time. Finally I had to disable the PM feature to get rid of him.

Every baseball helmet used to have to be checked. ;)

I did not say anything about mentioning concussions. I said that the rules on what we ask the coaches are the same and that the concussion rules are the same amongst many NF sports.

So has every other sport.

This was my post that I started. No one is arguing with you at all, at least I am not. Just pointing out some facts.

I am not wrong about anything, you just disagree which is fine with me. And I thought you did not do HS baseball anymore, but somehow you know the role of a HS official and you only do one sport to my knowledge. I find that kind of interesting. ;)

If they are unaware then they are the dumbest coaches I have ever been around if other sports who do not have some of the dealings with their players as other sports and they have no idea what one player uses at one time. At least in baseball there can only be one bat used at a time and you are telling me a coach is clueless to what they use? Really?

Again, if they did not know, then coaches in baseball are the dumbest coaches around. Because when in a football game the coaches are asking off the bat if an eye shield can be used and the football team in many cases triples or quadruples the number of kids that play baseball, those are the weakest excuses I have ever heard for passing the buck. We cannot have a coach in football that does not know about the cleats they are using and a baseball coach cannot figure out what bat his player uses on any given time. And he has to worry about one person at a time?

You are really comparing the pros to HS programs? Great comparison. Maybe at the pro level they also require the umpires to x-ray every bat too. ;)

I never said that we do not check, I said we do not sit around and go look to make sure every helmet has a sticker. And not the baseball rule is in line with other sports that also do not check any equipment. So what is your point? Now what they do in any other sport, baseball has to do. ;)


Well here is the thing. I really do not give a crap what you care about or who I referenced. I referenced the people that create the rules and referenced the philosophy that they employ. And I have been here a lot longer than you and people for years talk about other sports and will continue to do so in these conversations. And they will really do it when rules changes come up because they often reflect other sports (like the concussion rule last year that was changed). And if you think that this rule did not come with others saying "Why does baseball do something that other sports do not have to do?" Then you are not using much common sense. Also college got rid of this rule for the very same reason. It was silly to make umpires check something that the coaches should know more about. Now you can disagree, but the rule was changed for some reason. And if they felt that the umpires were that to be held ultimately responsible then they would keep up this practice. Again, baseball is one of the safer sports as it relates to what bats can or cannot do. The main player that is in any real danger from a bat is the pitcher (which is why all these bat changes were ultimately made to protect). If they really wanted to worry about safety of all the player they could change the ball to the safer kind.

Peace

Dude, I started the damn thread. If you do not like the conversation, then go somewhere else. No one is asking you to care what is said. I do not read all the crap here I do not like and I certainly do not complain about it. Don't read and you will be happier. I do not read most of the crap here and I do not need a little button to tell me what to ignore.

Peace

Dude, the point is that the conversation was about the FED rule changes for 2012, which is fine. You two had to get into your petty, nonsensical argument and derail the thread off topic like the both of you have done in the past in other threads. PM each other if you want to. You two have an uncanny ability to talk in circles trying to prove to everyone that you're right, when in reality you just turn threads into piles of crap.

The ignore button doesn't tell you what to ignore, it simply lets you ignore other forum members.

Grow up. You just displayed arrogance while condemning it.

I feel no need to shy from those who misstate the facts or cloud them. If you find it petty and nonsensical to state what the rule book mandates then you should hang up the gear. Finally, this is not an Illinois issue. While we may reside in this state, the rule being discussed is a national standard.

I find it hard to believe that officials cannot deal with those who challenge their opinions publicly. It must be tough for them on the field without an ignore feature for 'protection'.

A quick check of other forums shows that the guy who whined about being PMd is considered a troublemaker almost everywhere he shows up. That tells the tale.

Again, I started this topic and if you do not like it do not read the forum. This is not about who is right (and the problem with many here IMO), it is about opinion. I have a right to state why a rule was changed and what our role is in that. If you do not agree, you have a right to state your opinion. Remember this bothers you, I just ignore other conversations when I choose not to participate in those conversations I find silly or trivial. I do it all the time without any internet help. Usually the topic or who is saying something usually has me not read it. You know kind of like you do in real life at a public event. You see someone you do not choose to talk to or someone calls you on the phone and you do not feel like talking, you look and go the other way. See how easy that was?

Peace

Where did I say the rule book was petty and nonsensical? Quit making things up. I said you two derailing threads is petty and nonsensical. Which rule? The football rules you two are blabbering about?

Nice red herring. While I don't need the ignore feature on the field, it is nice to have it on here for people like you who love to hear themselves talk. (Or see themselves post)

I will say it again since you have a problem with comprehension: The thread started with a discussion about 2012 baseball rule changes and you two turned it into a cesspool like you've done in the past.

Maybe you missed the rule quote in my first couple posts here. Maybe you missed the part where I told Jeff to not compare baseball and football. Maybe you missed the part where I told Jeff that checking all helmets in baseball has been mandatory for years. Maybe you missed the part where I told Jeff that he was comparing unequal things. If so, then I can see why you believe what I wrote is nonsensical and petty.


I suggest you purchase Linda McMeniman's "From Inquiry to Argument". It will explain what a red herring is (you erred) and improve your debating abilities.

It is hardly improper to state that some officials cannot deal with others criticizing their calls, in a forum dedicated to the profession. I further stated that the person who mentioned its use is not highly regarded here or on other umpire forums. A Google search shows that.

I remind you that this new rule regarding equipment checking is flawed. It has not penalty, other than what exists already. If the NFHS wants to make coaches more responsible they need to include appropriate penalty for not ensuring compliance. Otherwise, get rid of the rule and just play ball - like OBR and NCAA ruled games do.