Third base coverage
 

Two umpires... Which umpire has third base when runners are on 1st & 2nd?

Has third base for what?

Depends.

If there are less than 2 outs, batter hits a deep fly and the runners tag up, the PU will take a play on the R2 at 3B.

Otherwise the BU has all plays at 3B.

JM

What about touches of 3B?

(I know that you know; I was trying to learn what the OP was asking with the ambiguous phrase "has third base.")

My fault... If there is a ball hit to SS and force play at third.

Ringo, think about where the BU is when this play starts and then ask yourself again, Who is going to make this call?

Well, the plate umpire called safe and base umpire signaled out. Just was curious whose call this was supposed to be... Thanks.

if the ball doesn't leave the infield, the BU always has the first play unless it's at the plate.

Assuming field umpire is in the proper C position, the answer is easy. Unfortunately I gave been seeing the field umpire in the B position more frequently with R1 & R2 as of late.

In Illinois, at least, the IHSA wants you in B for all plays if I recall correctly this year.

treydawg,

Where on earth did you get that idea?

From the 2-man POE doc posted on the IHSA officials website:


JM

Just playing "devil's advocate", but what's wrong with being in B in that sitch. You have a much better angle of the play than you do at C.

I don't see that as a disadvantage, but many times an advantage.

Coaches are the only ones who complain that the umpire was too far away to make the call.

Thanks
David

As I recall, Carl used to defend an "always in B" mechanic, though I seem to remember the claim being that it was no worse than C and easier to teach.

I think he meant "B instead of A", not necessarily "B instead of C".

Sorry Ringo, my answer was predicated on you being a baseball umpire. I can assume from your vast amount of post that you do basketball. Plate umpire has no business making this call.

I do not umpire college baseball (but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, :D; I coudn't resist) but I have a couple of friends that do, but they have told me that with runners on 1B and 3B (it does not matter whether the pitcher is LH or RH), if (a) the Batter is RH the BU should be in the B, and (b) if the Batter is in LH the BU should be in the C. The reasoning is that the position of the Batter dictates F3 will more likely attempt a pick-off of the Runner that does not have the Batter between him and the Plate, thereby putting the BU closer to the more likely Runner.

I hope that I didn't confuse anybody, :confused:.

MTD, Sr.

Carl is a propenent of the BU starting in the B position; he calls it Umpiring Mechanics of the 21st Century. Mark, Jr., and I have been doing it all season long in our H.S. games in the Spring and our summer leagues too.

MTD, Sr.

Not true in 2-person; and an option in 3-person.

No problem Forest Ump ... Following the little leaguers around and saw this play and wanted to ask that question on this board.

The only reason I asked was because both umpires made the call and each had something different. Was interested to see whose call this was. The BU was standing behind SS when he made the call. Runners were on 1st & 2nd. And the ball hit to SS causing SS to throw to third for the force out. Home plate ump came up the line and signaled safe, BU stayed in his original spot and called out.

They came together and called out, which was not the popular call :)

Had they called safe ... one might have said: at least they got the play right.

Thanks to all!

Bob:

All I can say is this is how it was described to me by a couple of my friends who umpire at the Div. II and III level up here. I am not a college umpire so I cannot comment on it either way.

MTD, Sr.

For me it all depends on the situation. When there is a R2 and less than 2 outs, I'll normally take the first call and my partner will take the second. And if there is a shot to the outfield and there could be a call at second or third, generally the plate ump will make the call at third.

What mechanics book are you using?

None, Its 12u, 13u, and 14u. And it has always worked for me. It may not be correct for high school or higher levels, but I am 18 and I'm not old enough to do those. One ump can't be in two places at once, and if there isn't going to be a play at the plate, and there could be a play at 2nd or 3rd/1rst or 3rd mine as well help the bu.

In my best Vinny Barbarino, Where? What? I think they kicked the idea around here in 1889 or 90, and quickly realized the sheer folly of such utter nonsense.

And if the play at 3B ends up having the ball thrown away toward the fence/dugout and you have a close play at home, who's there to make the call?

You're right. But with proper positioning and movement, a base umpire should be able to cover any area he would have primary responsibility for covering. An umpire should be sure that he's not moving to a play until such play is going to be made.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn proper mechanics. Learning them now prevents breaking bad habits when you are old enough for the higher-level assignments.

All this said, I completely understand if you're plugging a hole for a partner who is lacking in his mechanics. However, I don't see this being the case in your posts ("I'll normally take the first call and my partner will take the second" and "generally the plate ump will make the call at third"). If your ultimate goal is to work higher-level baseball, then you and your partners should start studying proper mechanics and learn them now. You'll be amazed how efficient your movement will become and easier it will be to umpire your games.

The 2-umpire system is designed to maximize coverage for all possible outcomes, including the ones that wouldn't occur to you. If you're old enough to work with a partner, you're old enough to learn the right way.

I worked a game last weekend after a 16 year-old umpire working by himself for a different league. He had the most remarkable array of bad habits, from signaling strikes with his left hand on down. I thought: here's a kid who will have worked maybe 150 games before he turns 18, and he'll be useless to the association because he'll be so hard to retrain. What a shame.

Baseball is baseball, and umpiring is umpiring. It's not too late to get yourself some proper training. All your future partners will thank you.

Yep, and it's also a series of compromises to get an umpire to the best position position possible, not the best possible position.

Sometimes, the BU needs to earn his money.

Bob is absolutely right. The BU needs to earn his money. The partners I work with know that as the plate umpire, there are only three occasions when I will be at 3rd base:

1) Runner going to 3rd base and throw from the outfield is also going to 3rd base on 1st and 3rd situation.

2) R1/R2, and R2 tags up and advances on a fly out to the outfield.

3) A rundown occurs between 2nd and 3rd, and I can get there before it's all over.

My biggest pet peeve as a base umpire is a PU that insists on creeping up the 3rd base line, like they want to help out or something, like on naked triples. Chugging into 3rd and looking over and seeing the PU standing by the cutout just really gets me mad.

Second play in the infield? That's why they call it the BU position.

Kind of suspected this might be a 60 foot diamond. Where often the pregame is HP takes 3rd without full understanding of small diamond mechanics