Who Does the Plate?
 

If it's not assigned, how do you decide who does the plate - what if BOTH of you want it, and what if NEITHER of you want it?
Flip a coin? Senior umpire decides?
Is there a way to gracefully say "I don't want it tonight?" without the other guy thinking I'm just dodging the dish?

JJ

If you ask the person what they prefer and he says, he doesn't care, and you really don't feel like it, then tell him that it would be great if he took the dish tonight, then promise to take the dish the next time you work together. Pretty simple to me.

Hmmm,
 

We are assigned either stick or bases. We do not have a choice and the decision is never left "up to us."

I wouldn't assume this is normal. You know how many places I've lived and the plate/base assignment has never been assigned in games I've worked.

I've never been assigned one or the other. Normally if both want/don't want the dish for a game then the senior man gets to make the call the first time. After that it is customary for it to rotate back and forth.

IMO an association should never assign the dish unless it is a playoff game. If the two umpires can't decide in the dressing room then there are much bigger issues in the association than who is working the dish.

That's the way it is done in central SC in high school and American Legion. We even assign a crew chief for each game. That crew chief may or may not be the plate umpire. The crew chief is almost always the more/most experienced umpire.

Here, we decide when we talk to each other the night before. Every time, I say "Do you want the plate or bases?" If he makes a decision, he gets what he chooses; if he says "It doesn't matter to me," I'll usually take the opposite of what I had the last game.

The only exception is if we've worked together. Before asking, I'll say "We worked together last year at ... and I (1) had the bases, I'll take the plate. (2) had the plate, so what would you like this time?"

Personally, I don't care what I do. I find, though, that most umpires will find excuses to not take the plate. It makes no sense to me.

I normally want to do the plate and I am normally assigned to it. But every now and then we aren't assigned and there have been days when I just didn't feel it and me and the other guy flipped a coin. Normally you'll work with the same guy more than once.

You mean you actually own plate gear? I've been lied to for 25 years...:eek:

Never worked in an area were the position was pre-assigned and I usually try to cover it in my phone call the night before. I prefer the dish but, always give the other official the option. A lot of times I ask just to see the response I get. For the most part it is assumed that you switch off game to game. There are those (and every association has them), that habitually have an excuse of why they can't do it though.

I especially like the ones that never return the phone call and show up at the last minute. At one time I used keep track of the times I did the dish and it was always way more than the times I didn't. Not complaining but sometimes I just wish some officials would just say, "hey, I never do the dish, I don't feel like it, I am afraid to sweat a little, I suck at it or I am just too lazy to put the gear on" instead of all ridiculous excuses I hear sometimes.

Once, I actually had a partner show up after the game had started in full gear and said "I always do the dish for these games". Of course he never returned a phone call the night before and was fifteen minutes late. I told him to go back to his car and take the equipment off and either go home or come back and do the bases. I could write a book on this topic. It was always more common for HS ball and below because usually the College Associations didn't allow these slackers do officiate in the first place.

Around here it is always "assigned" plate or bases; it's a function in Arbiter. Except for playoffs and "purpose" assignments [evaluation or elephant hunting] the position assignments are subject to change at the choice of the crew.

-I had the dish with these guys last time, would you mind?
-I've done my last three on the plate [/or bases, but you almost never hear that]; would you mind?
-This will be my first live pitching this season [all scrimages rained out - happened to me this year] - would you mind if I took the dish for this [JV] game? I'd like you to give me some eval. post-game.

In the event of "conflict", the most senior/ highest rated [in my assn. such positions are relatively unofficial/ informal, but generally well-recognised] umpire makes the decision. Never had it happen [disagreement] in one of my games. Helps that we get paid the same plate or bases; and official policy is EVERYONE brings plate gear to ALL games.

There is no formula. Someone has to do it so I go to every game being prepared to work the plate and sometimes based on who is playing, if my partner or I had the teams recently or if I will work with or have worked with the particular partner previously we decide based on those things. For example if my partner had the plate 5 days in a row and I have had the plate only once in that same time, I will offer to work the plate. If we worked previously and I worked the plate then I will let my partner work the plate this time. And that is just two common examples, there are often times other factors that it would take too long to decide. As I said before, I prepare to work the plate just in case.

Peace

Never a problem with high school games here in Iowa; they're all doubleheaders. The only discussion is whether you take the first or second game behind the plate. Most guys seem to prefer to take the first game; I used to feel that way but generally don't care that much anymore. Sometimes it's nice to have the dish for the second game once it cools off a little and the sun starts going down. Nearly everyone I have worked with rotates first game; if they had it last time you worked, it's your option the next time.

The guys who are already there in full plate gear before you arrive irritate me, it's something that should be discussed out of common courtesy. There is one guy around here who only works soph/frosh level games, who puts on the plate gear at home and gets to the game about 50 minutes ahead of time to ensure he will get that first game behind the plate. He is generally disliked and a pretty crappy umpire to boot. I work nearly all of my high school dates with the same guy now so we just rotate first game back and forth.

I do work a few lower level games that are singles before the high school season starts here at the end of May. I always show up assuming I will work the plate because I figure the guy I will be working with will either refuse, give some excuse about a bad back etc, or say he "forgot" his gear. I don't understand why guys umpire if they don't want to work the plate. I wouldn't want to work every game on the dish, but I would be bored to death working every game on the bases. I like doing both.

Plate always assigned and rarely changed. A couple Sundays ago I woke feeling like H*ll and had a DH to do. I knew assigner was out of town so called a few guys trying to get myself replaced with no luck. So I went.

I had been assigned first game but partner said he would do it and I happily agreed. After the game he said he would work the 2nd game too, if it would help. We discussed for a bit and finally I told him I would be eternally gratefull and pay him back some day.

I made it through, went home and showered, and went to bed.

MTD, Jr. and I have two assigners for H.S. baseball: One for our OhioHSAA sanctioned games and one for our MichiganHSAA games. Our MichiganHSAA assigner assigns the PU and BU; if it is a DH then it really doesn't matter who does the P the first game, but when we are assigned together Junior always takes the P the first game and if it is a single game then Junior usually takes the P for his "old man" no matter who was assigned the P. For our OhioHSAA sanctioned games Junior usually takes the P for his "old man" because he really likes working the P.

If we assigned OhioHSAA games separately then whoever gets to the game first usually works the P because there are far too many guys that like to arrive at the game site about the time the crew should be walking onto the diamond.

Junior is a good son. :D

MTD, Sr.

Elephant hunting?

Old term from the 70's. When a coach got a reputation for being a real a$$ or bully and would take it out on newer or younger members that didn't know how to handle him, the assigner would send an older experience crew to work his games and put him on a very short leash, dumping him at the first provocation.

Elephant hunting in many areas has been replaced with better training of newer umpires.

Rat trapping?

I've come to the conclusion (when working with people I don't know well) that if an umpire is trying to ditch the plate job, I'm better off working it. Those that pull out every excuse to ditch the plate are, without fail, crappy umpires who will make my game on the bases a nightmare.

If I'm working with people in my small circle of friends I prefer to work with, we'll simply take turns. If there's a reason one of us needs a day off the plate, we pick up for each other. Except for the guy earlier this season who told me it was my turn and made me drive (driver works the plate) and do the plate after I ran in a 5K a few hours earlier (and I'm not a runner). No heart, that guy. ;)

Here in Kansas, all the games are DH in HS ball. I prefer to work the plate first, that way I can pack my gear between games, and just leave straight after the 2nd game. It seems to have been raining more this year, so It makes for a quick and easy getaway when the 2nd one gets rained out.

Here in Texas, for the most part HS Varsity games are single game and usually we decide the previous night over the phone on who does what. My rule of a thumb is usually that if I had the team previously within the week and I worked the dish, I usually let my partner know the situation and if he would do the plate, can't think of an instance where a guy has said no. I always pick up my partner next time we are together.

This past weekend, I worked a DH with the same partner on both Saturday and sunday, and boy was it hot. Saturday i took the first plate and on sunday he took the first plate.

Earlier in the HS Season during tournament play sometimes we were assigned three games and we flipped to see who did two. The loser would end up doing two and decide which two he wanted.

However, there are times I just don't want to do the plate and if I know my partner very well the conversation usually goes along the lines " Hey Mike, I don't feel up to the task of the doing the plate, do you mind taking this one, thanks Bud got you on a beer after the game."

I'm sure your partners enjoy your "quick getaway."

Usually when people want to get away quick I consider the source and actually prefer the solitude.

Really? So the assignor should have no say in this? There may be reasons for the assignor wanting a specific PU/BU - I can think of LOTS of reasons.

I can't remember the last time I was assigned a game where I didn't know where I was going beforehand.

agreed
 

this is exactly my method........

There are only a couple reasons I can think of, the most common being evaluation or playoff games (as I mentioned in my first post). Want to assign for those? Fine.

With every other case one of the following two rules applies. 1) If the crew can't recognize that one should be on plate, the other on bases then you have a bigger issue than which one is working which. (I've mentioned the game where I was the BU for my own high school numerous times. If my partner and I couldn't figure out I should be on the bases then both of us should have been kicked out of the association.) 2) If you can't trust both your guys to do the dish as an assignor then you shouldn't have one of them working the game. End of story.

Simma down about the quick getaway. I'm on the opposite side of the state and it's the same way here. All DH and sometimes I'm 90 miles from home with a local partner. I try to take the first plate on those and get away quick too. We usually work within the same small group of guys so we all understand. I'm sure it's the same out west too.

Plate is assigned by arbiter, but with all DH we decide the night before or at the game and usually let the guy w/ the longer drive take the first plate or we take turns. I always ask and where I have major respect for my regular partners they get to decide.

My assignor for Sou Ohio OHSAA games uses Arbiter but with a twist. Umpires call him preseason and verbally schedule the spring HS games with the understanding that he may move us to another game as the season progresses.

When initially scheduled, we know if its plate or base(and if 1st to discuss that game, we can pick PU/BU). In any case, then the Arbiter sends those games to be accepted.
We know when we arrive at the game site where we are working.

Coaches as supposed to rate the umpires performance after each game, they being 1 of 6 entities that are involved with choosing who gets playoff games.
I always prefer the plate, but switching pregame means that when the coaches rate each umpire(postgame or days later), he uses the PU/BU positions listed on Arbiter(unless he personally knows me/us). If my partner had a bad game, I wouldnt have a problem asking the assignor to switch the positions on Arbiter so I'm not hit with a coaches bad rating...

I am assigned plate/base in my association for ALL games whether HS summer or fall ball.

It makes 'life easier" Let's face it unless you work in an elite association there is a handful of umpires that do not mind working the plate. if you do not assign base / plate you will get guys who will say "I left my gear at home". "I am not feeling that good" etc. etc. In other words all kinds of exuses.


If plate / base assignments are NOT assigned then at least have some criteria like number of years at that level etc.

I do not mind the dish but on the same token especially when the weather gets hot I do not want 6/7 dishes in a row which happens when plate / base assignments are not predetermined.

Pete Booth

I just don't see why someone would fly out of the parking lot -- it only takes a plate guy 5-10 minutes to get undressed and put things away. I'm just not comfortable leaving a partner alone while changing -- you never know what idiot will come along and it's nice to have numbers.

Hey, to each their own.

Around here, almost every umpire I have worked with waits until I have changed from my plate gear and am ready to drive away. I return the favor. It's a good time to post game, discuss upcoming schedules and rule/policy changes. Especially after a tough game, I enjoy the time to cool the jets and learn something about my partners.

How nice of you.

I'm with him. If I'm listed wrong on Arbiter, I'd want it fixed. Period. Fortunately, I get to choose who I work with and we sign the books here, so there's little confusion. Besides, after a decade here, most coaches know me well enough that I don't have to worry about it.

Yes, Rich, but this is what he said: "If my partner had a bad game..."

I would hope we'd call and have it changed regardless of the quality of our partner's game.

In addition, if it's changed and he becomes the PU then has a bad game on the dish, does he call and get it changed in Arbiter? Or does he just let his partner get the hit for that, too?

Agree, I have never left a partner until I know his car/truck started and is moving. We will discuss whatever needs discussing and I might start my engine first and move from parking spot, but I am not leaving the parking lot until I see his vehicle moving.

Or the technique has been refined as a part of the "better training of newer umpires". Don't send a full crew of "hunters" - send ONE, along w/ one of the folks getting beat up, to model the desired game management techniques [and to step in and squelch the offending rat if necessary]. Thus the "purpose assignment".

Kinda hard to "train" someone to deal with stuff without them having ever seen it in person - like training a plate umpire without ever seeing live pitching.

where I work, it's usually assigned but there are times where I'll adjust with my partner. One case, I had the plate, apparently he just had knee surgery and wasn't really able to run around on the bases, so I agreed to let him take the plate and I would do my best to cover all the bases and let him stay at the plate the entire game. Another time, I was scheduled for bases, partner shows up without a mask, and it's 95 degrees, I'm not letting someone else sweat into my mask, so I worked the plate.

another time at a tournament, we were running behind and we were trying to finish the games before darkness hit, so we just worked it out that whoever was dressed in plate gear would stay on the plate the rest of the day (one game would start just minutes after the last out of the previous one, the teams were ready to sprint onto the field quickly).

important thing is that you get along with your partner and have a good game.


isn't this just common courtesy between umpires?

I think it's common courtesy in general. If you go out to eat with friends, you don't run out after paying the bill, saying "See you later!" as you leave.

One of the two games I have ever worked that ended in forfeit was 4 or 5 years ago. I was assigned the plate and was working with an experienced partner in a 16-17 year old summer game. Game ended after I tossed the HC, the pitcher (his son), the third baseman and a someone else who ran up behind me screaming. I have no idea what position he played, I just knew he wasn't where he needed to be. The game ended due to no asst coach to take over, and lack of enough players to continue.

My partner called the assigner on his cell phone to explain what happened, and partner was told that he had been warned that this coach and team were hot heads, beware. Assignor looked at the assignment for this team's next game, and decided not to even mention it to us, said he knew either one of us would take care of business if needed.

In my previous Association it showed up on Arbiter with someone assigned plate and someone field. The decision for who did what came 24-48 hours prior as we were required to contact our partner within that time frame. We also were required to be at field at least 45 minutes prior to game time. Anyone found not following these rules were "fined" accordingly (there were extreme circumstances that were taken into consideration). It's amazing how many made sure to follow these rules once money was taken out of their checks... Really had very little problems outside what has already been mentioned (some not wanting to do the dish....). Be interested to see if any other Association issues fines?

So Arbiter assigned you PU or BU, but you changed it when you talked to your partner? Not that I'm against it, but did you notify your association when this happened? I'm sure they used these assignments in case an issue came forward from the game (i.e., a coach complaint on the BU).

Of course not. Common sense says you do that before you pay the bill.

"So Arbiter assigned you PU or BU, but you changed it when you talked to your partner?"

That's correct... You already know who is at the game if there is a problem and with that Association we had a system that ranked ups from 6-1. You had to be a 4 to earn numbers and if a problem arose the coaches would take down the number and report it. System worked very well.

Yawetag is correct. I re-read my post and I came across as smug, which wasnt my intent. I should've said "if one of us has a bad game".

Since changing positions before a varsity game rarely happens to me, I've contacted the assignor each time(maybe 3 times in 10 yrs including 1 this season), and would never saddle a partner with a potential bad rating due to my game (plus a smart partner would also contact the assignor). Playoff games are nice, but dont compare to my (alleged ) rep with my peers....

Same way in the Upstate of SC...

Well that would work.