What is "Borderline"?

[umpire99]

I heard a coach asking my partner to watch for the pitcher not coming to a stop when in the set position. My partner said, "I have been watching. He is borderline."

What is "borderline"? To me, either he stops or he does not stop. There is no gray area here. I did not interject my opinion because it was not askef for in this situation.

[Welpe]

Borderline is technically illegal in that he's not coming to a full stop but it is so slight that it'd probably be picking nits to call it the first time he does it. This is the one you want to remind the pitcher to come to a full stop.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Borderline is technically illegal in that he's not coming to a full stop but it is so slight that it'd probably be picking nits to call it the first time he does it. This is the one you want to remind the pitcher to come to a full stop.

Borderline is technically legal in that he's coming to a full stop, but it's so slight than any quicker move would be a balk.

I now use "It's close, but he's stopping" or "It's not much, but it's a stop" or "I saw it and it was legal." And, I say it loud enough so the pitcher can get the message.

[ozzy6900]

I never use that line ".... he's borderline"when talking to a coach, because where do you draw the line? When talking to a coach, either there was a violation or there wasn't. If you say "borderline", the coach is going to keep chewing at you.

[TwoBits]

A "borderline balk" is like saying a woman is borderline pregnant. She either is, or she isn't. Same with a pitcher.

The only explanation a coach needs is the pitcher is or is not coming to a complete stop.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Borderline is technically legal in that he's coming to a full stop, but it's so slight than any quicker move would be a balk.

Well played.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Borderline is technically illegal in that he's not coming to a full stop but it is so slight that it'd probably be picking nits to call it the first time he does it. This is the one you want to remind the pitcher to come to a full stop.

Do you really remind pitchers to come to a stop in Fed or NCAA rules ball? I worked with a guy who would tell a fielder to talk to his pitcher about coming to a stop. He finally got caught doing that and spent a few minutes tap dancing about why he was helping a team avoid breaking a rule to an irate coach.

The term borderline here means that the umpire didn't know how to respond. Call the balk unless the league allows warnings.

[Welpe]

I have never called an NCAA game so that is a moot point but I'd like to think it is generally accepted that the leniency on these things varies with the level of play.

Do you call every nit picking technical balk you come across? I would hope not.

If the pitcher is right on the cusp of stopping or not, yes I'm going to mention something him. When I say "warning", I'm not talking about calling time and giving an official warning. I don't see a problem with trying to keep him legal. That's part of preventative officiating.

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Borderline is technically legal in that he's coming to a full stop, but it's so slight than any quicker move would be a balk.

I now use "It's close, but he's stopping" or "It's not much, but it's a stop" or "I saw it and it was legal." And, I say it loud enough so the pitcher can get the message.

+1 - well stated

Thanks
David

[MrUmpire]

No need to over think. Most umpires who use this term mean that the pitcher is coming close to a violation but is still in compliance.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I heard a coach asking my partner to watch for the pitcher not coming to a stop when in the set position. My partner said, "I have been watching. He is borderline."

What is "borderline"? To me, either he stops or he does not stop. There is no gray area here. I did not interject my opinion because it was not askef for in this situation.

It is whatever the person talking wants to make it mean. Yes either they stop or the do not stop. But you also do not want to make a call that is so questionable that we have to watch slow-motion replay to determine one way or the other. As the now passed Dave Parry used to say, "Make it be there." Or what other sports say, "Call the obvious." If you call the obvious it is harder for anyone to question the minor stuff.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Do you really remind pitchers to come to a stop in Fed or NCAA rules ball?

(My first reply since clearing the ignore list. Wonder how long this will last.)

Yes, I'll send the catcher out if it's "borderline." I did it when I worked college ball (D3), too. I don't really care if the coach knows, or not. If he comes out, there will be no tap-dancing. I'll simply say, "He's close and I'm simply letting him know that. I'd do the same for you." Then he can go back to the dugout.

Why do you make it sound like we have to be afraid or wary of coaches? In the end, I hold all the cards (I can make the coach leave if I need to). No reason to be afraid or upset or worried or tap dance. He asks, I answer, we move on. If he doesn't want to move on, that's not really my problem.

[bob jenkins]

I agree. What you CAN NOT say is anything along the lines of "if you do that again I'll balk you" or "you need to give me a better stop than that."

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

(My first reply since clearing the ignore list. Wonder how long this will last.)

Yes, I'll send the catcher out if it's "borderline." I did it when I worked college ball (D3), too. I don't really care if the coach knows, or not. If he comes out, there will be no tap-dancing. I'll simply say, "He's close and I'm simply letting him know that. I'd do the same for you." Then he can go back to the dugout.

Why do you make it sound like we have to be afraid or wary of coaches? In the end, I hold all the cards (I can make the coach leave if I need to). No reason to be afraid or upset or worried or tap dance. He asks, I answer, we move on. If he doesn't want to move on, that's not really my problem.

I did pretty much the exact same thing the other day. After a couple of borderline stops I sent the catcher out to let his pitcher know he was close to balking for not stopping (only the catcher knew the reason for his visit). Two innings later, he blew through a stop (not borderline) with the bases loaded. Oops. I was not questioned on the balk call, but if I was, I would have no problem telling the coach what I did two innings earlier. I think it would diffuse any argument he might have.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

(only the catcher knew the reason for his visit).

Depending on the level, my guess is that most participants knew the reason.

It can still be a useful tool, though.