Wakefield, Hernandez, Francona and West
 

What did Angel Hernandez call the balk for on Wakefield friday night? It looked to me like he may have stepped toward home on his attempted fake to third.

Francona ejected arguing balk call on Wake | redsox.com: News

Here's the video.
Not sure about the call.
I don't like Francona's behavior nor do I Like Joe West's behavior.

Always wise to post video so people can see the play:
 

<a herf="http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14540715&topic_id=11493214" target="_blank">Balk</a>

Play
 

"http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14540715&topic_id=11493214"

Sorr5y, can't make into a link for some reason

My first reaction was that he stepped to the plate instead of third.

I can see why he called the balk, but that's very marginal. LHP get away with a lot lot more than that, and I like what Francona said, he's been doing that same move for years and its never been called.

Joe West is probably going to get in trouble for his part, you can't put your hands on the manager and get away with it.

Thanks
David

You can't charge through a person either. West doesn't have to stand there and let him run through him either. Sorry, If somebody tries to run through me, I'm going to defend myself. Ridiculous to say that West should've kept his hands off of him.

No way. Francona was clearly the aggressor here. He was raging like a lunatic and Cowboy Joe put his hands on him long enough to just keep him from charging right through him. GMAFB.

Joe was doing his job. He rodeo-clowned Farcona away from Angel and Francona tried to bull his way through. At the end Francona threw his gum at Angel. Real classy guy.

I don't believe that. If he had been doing that move for years, it would have been balked for years. He stepped toward the plate. Balk.

It's just coach speak. Bill Walkenbach said that to me in his first year at Cornell after a balk on a pitcher he had only seen in practice.

And speaking of ejections, the Biggest Idiot in All of MLB, aka Milton Bradley got ejected AGAIN last night for arguing what was a pretty good pitch on the low outside corner of the plate. His manger had to come out and physically restrain him from attacking the HP ump, a AAA fill in named Muchlinski.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CWS@SEA: Bradley is ejected arguing a strike - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

Includes the usual stupid "You can't the give the pitcher both sides of the plate" remarks from the mouths in the booth.....

Why do teams keep getting Bradley??

I don't see a balk. Nobody steps toward third to deliver to the plate, this is classic 3rd to 1st move, that I once thought fooled no one at ML level. Joe West, at 3b did not call it.

I'm not seeing it either. I think it's pretty clear where he's stepping.

So what else is new, shades of the old "I have to figure out someway to insert myself into this game Hernandez" arise again. He gained direction towards third and at no time did it ever look like he was going to deliver the ball to HP. Look at Hernandez he doesn't make the call right away, he hesistates and sees how far the runner is caught off the bag, then probably thinks that couldn't happen unless the pitcher did something illegal.

Yes it was borderline where he stepped but it was totally obvious what Wakefield was doing. Of course, Wakefields fat arse prevents him from keeping his legs together anyway. which worked against him here.

The comments over at the umpire ejections blog insist Wakefield stepped towards the plate. I put together a photo with two screen grabs that show his step was much more towards third than home, and they still insist on balk.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ire/nobalk.jpg

Obviously I don't know what Francona said to Hernandez, but the ejection seemed way too quick. Hernandez held out his hand as if to say, "Don't come out here" (much like West often does). It seems to me the interpretation that you can't argue balks doesn't preclude a manager for asking for clarification on what the balk was.

Given how close the foot is to the line and the camera angle, I can see how a balk can be called.

All the umpire is required to do is state the reason for the balk, which Angel did. The balk cannot be argued, which Francona tried to do.

West's job was to rodeo clown Francona away from Angel, which he did.

They've all moved on.

Just now. Bottom of 4th, Cin at Chi. Balkin' Bob rings one up. Not a peep from anyone.

It's amazing how, even at that level, a few guys will call balks and the majority do not.

Edited to add: And another one. Bottom of 8th. Davidson calls a start and stop balk. Great call...not even close.

Was it a great call then, or was he just doing his job?

The correct way to draw the diagram is to have a line coming from the rubber to the base and a line from the pivot foot to the plate. Split that angle and you can determine where the step is. From the photos, to me it clearly looks like he stepped towards home

And to be definitive, the camera angle would need to be from along that split angle. Any other angle would be distorted.

The camera angle makes these pictures inconclusive, and your vertex is in the wrong place. It should be farther from home plate, so your screen grabs don't show what you say they do.

Both. He did his job by making a great call...one that so many of his brethern ignore.

A picture tells a thousand words, but not all of them are true.

Watch the video. Clearly the weight and step go towards home. An easy call for the plate umpire and I can't believe so much effort is going to show that Hernandez is "wrong."

I won't say that it's blatant or obvious, but I think it is the right call based on the video.

Yep. I've got a balk on this one too. It's not blatant, but I can see why he called it.

No RHP steps in this manner to throw home, and there is no 45 degree rule.

I could care less about Hernandez, and it is easier call for 3b ump. Joe West was at 3b, and he did not call it, so clearly, it was not clearly a balk.

Whether 45 degrees is written or not, it's certainly the easiest way to describe what makes a step more towards one base as opposed to another.

You couldn't be more wrong. Who better to see a step to the plate than the plate umpire?

I am fine with that balk call.

Show me a video of a RHP who has ever stepped in this manner to throw home and I might agree with you. As it stands I do not on either of your points.

Irrelevant.

"...but I think it is the right call based on the video. "

How many of us really get the opportunity to review a balk in video before making a call? No one. We get a one-shot deal...

I probably would have seen nothing here in real time and let it go, but upon video review, Yes, it sure appears to be a Balk. Kudos to Hernandez for catching it in real time...

I missed a balk a few games ago. The pitcher was being scouted by about a half dozen teams - he had already signed to play in South Carolina next year and was a bit of a head case. He was off and rocked early. While trying to disengage and look at first, his spikes caught and he was hung up for more than it took to call the infraction. It bothered me more to not call that than any coach chewing on me ever could. It was a split second and I'm 60+ feet away but it should have been done. We only get one shot and knowing that doesn't make it easier. Stewing on it will make me better and ready for the next time. Split seconds are all we have.

No, Ozzy, that's simply "spam" - an entirely different thing.

JM

When spammers appear, please do NOT:
1) respond to the post
2) quote the post
3) report the post
4) mention anything about the post

All of those make it much more difficult to remove the post, and you are in danger of being banned along with the spammer (it almost happened to you, Ozzy).

On item 3 -- I read the General, Baseball and Basketball threads as often as I read my email. So, reporting the post, which sends me an email, just means it takes me longer to get here to deal with it. Now, if I miss a post and it's there for more than a day, then go ahead and report it. Or, if there's a post in another forum (e.g., softball or football), go ahead an report it. (But, don't report anything in the testing forum -- I jsut delete all that as a matter of course.)

My apologies. I thought I was helping out.

Missing something?
 

Maybe I am missing something here, but I have never heard talk of a gap between the feet in referencing calling a balk.

Anyone else, have thoughts on this? Or is Wakefield missing something?

If the feet are in a straight line toward home before them move, and there's then a "gap" between them when viewed by the umpire after the move, then the pitcher gained distance and direction (assuming the pivot foot doesn't move).

True but in this case, Wakefield gained distance toward HP which is where the balk came in, I believe. He went as much or more toward HP than 3B IMO. So, the gap he is referencing is of no defense for him going toward HP as well. I have a balk.

IMO, he stepped toward home, and in no fashion stepped toward 3rd. It was clearly a balk, everyone stop piling on Hernandez, and we move on.

DG, your argument that no pitcher's natural delivery includes such a step toward home is totally illogical and irrelevant. Wakefield stepped toward home, and not 3rd, and from where R1 was leading off, I am sure it looked like he was going to the plate.

There is legal deception, but this crossed over into illegal deception.

Dadgummit, had not signed in so irrelevant poster list not turned on....

Not a legal 3rd to 1st move?
 

F5 was not at 3B. F5 was playing back. Doesn't a good move require F1 to feint toward F5? Wakefield may have stepped to 3B, but he did not complete a legal feint to F5. Had he turned his shoulder to deliver the ball towards 3B, he may have avoided a balk call. F5 was no where near 3B and Wakefield made no attempt to deliver the ball to 3B or F5.

Wakefield separates his arms to simulate a pitch towards home plate and it is called a balk when he fails to deliver the pitch. This catches the runner off 1B. In summary, the PU may have seen what appears closer to a home to 1st move, than a legal 3rd to 1st move. That's a balk!

Angel just got another one in the MIN/BOS game in the Top of the 8th.

Angel just called another one from 1b position this time. Go look that video up, figure it out, and let me know what he was thinking. Uh, Joe West on the plate this time and Angel beat him to the call, if in fact, Joe would have called. I wonder, and doubt.

Gardenhire dumped by West for balls and strikes.

Missed it but I think it was on a check-swing.

DG,

I happened to be watching.

I'm guessing that it's because the F1 started in a windup and then switched to a set without first disengaging.

JM

tjones,

It was over a "foul tip" call by West where the Twins batter was incredulous that West judged it had hit his bat.

JM

Oh ok, thanks JM.

+1

Yeah, they are a pair to draw to, for sure:p.

Interesting thought. I did not really think of him in the windup, his left foot was out front at about 45 degree angle and then he moved it foward and come set. Many ML pitchers do strange things and are not called balks because everyone recognize they do it all the time. Don't remember if he did, but it certainly would not fool a runner and I would not call a balk.

But you may be right.

I don't think his foot was not parallel to the rubber. It was pointing to the “library” area.
When he turned to go set he turned his pivot foot parallel with the rubber.