That wasn't the third out
 

9th grade game.

Runner on second, one out.
Batter strikes out on a foul tip.

Catcher rolls the ball back towards the pitchers mound. All members of Team B, thinking that there are three outs, start to jog back to their dugout. R2, between second and third, stands there, confused. Knowing that there are only 2 outs, I say nothing. Finally, Team A's 3rd-base coach yells to his runner "There's only 2 outs, get over here!"

R2 makes it safely to third, Team B freezes.

B coach comes out of the dugout, asks if that was the third out. I say "no coach, there are two outs. One on the foul tip a second ago, and the other one on the sacrifice bunt by the second batter in the inning." (It didn't help that it was an 8- or 9- run inning between the 1st and 2nd outs). Coach accepts this, and we play on.

My question: should I have done anything differently, perhaps by saying loudly "2 outs" as the Team B players started jogging off the field?

I would have just sat there and not said a word. What did BU do? I just had the samething in Mens league and when we just stood there, the Base Runner figured it out and the defensive team did too.

There was no BU, as all sub-varsity High School contests around here are single-umpire.

How do they expect to develop Varsity umpires? The tried to do that here but the Associations balked.

No, no, you handled it exactly right. It's generally not your job to "fix" things when the offense or defense screws up.

Probably had that deer in the headlights look, didn't ya? :D

In general, during the summer.

Spring ball here is abbreviated and prone to weather. When every team (and I mean EVERY team) in the state is playing on the same days due to rainouts/snowouts, there aren't enough umpires to put two on sub-varsity games, and even if there were, I don't see schools paying for it.

It's the way it is here as well. One thing that keeps people away from the game and it does not train umpires well.

Rita

We have the same issue here. If the association stood firmly in solidarity, they could mandate 2 umpires and not work the lower level games if they believed that strongly in it. I agree that the lower level is where you develop, assuming your experienced umpires are also committing to work lower level to develop.

SHHHHHHHHHHH! :cool:

Almost 50 years ago, I saw the Pittsburgh Pirates start to trot off the field with 2 outs. The umpires waved them back before they got too far. I can't remember whether there were any runners, though.

Yep.
Half thinking "Did I forget to record an out on my clicker?" and half thinking "Am I supposed to tell them there's only 2 outs?"

Luckily for T, the next batter struck out, so no real harm done.

RE: training newer umpires, I agree it's a problem. Luckily, I was able to attend a clinic prior to my first umpiring gig, so I got a little bit of a chance to learn some mechanics. I'm also shadowing some more experienced umps, and observing varsity games when I can. I've also picked up some summer ball that's 2-umpire, so hopefully I'll get paired with some experienced folks there.

But it was definitely a very nervous experience for my first couple of solo games.

Amazing. We have a lot of weather in Wisconsin, and no school game can be played here (by the state association rules) with one umpire. The schools have no choice.

In a place where we go out and build our own schedules anyway, I guarantee even if the state got rid of this rule, I wouldn't be accepting games where I worked by myself.

Who said it was the mission of schools to develop umpires? With that said I don't know of any schools around here that would play any kind of game with one umpire and no assigner would assign just one.

If schools wish to have adequate officiating they must be a significant partner of the process of training officials (in this case by paying for two man crews in JV ball). If not, they deserve what they do not get.:(

If the association is incapable of attracting new umpires, ASSuming the Big Dogs are not doing their usual hording of games :rolleyes:, then the schools ("Contractors") need to lean on the association to GTF in gear.

Either way, he who has the gold should and must rule.Get in your car, travel, you would be surprised at the countryside. And the issues, problems in real umpiring worlds other than yours. ;)

MSHSL only requires it at the varsity level, and only quasi-sanctions sub-varsity games.

You would really get a kick out of San Diego, home of the cheapest rich bast*rds in the world. One-umpire tilts are standard procedure on any sub-varsity youth ball game, whether JV, Frosh, LL Minors, Majors, Senior LL, Pony, Colt. If you are lucky, Palomino usually hires two, as do adult baseball, USABF, and American Legion, otherwise it is One-Man-Sam.

Too bad. All games at the 9th grade level and up are covered by the WIAA.

Of course, I haven't taken a subvarsity game in 6 years (I did fill in on one last week as part of a V/JV DH and was reminded after 2:20 and five innings why I don't work JV games). Main reason is there are so many makeups that if I took a JV game, I know I'd get 10 calls to go work a big school varsity game makeup and then I'd be faced with the dilemma of whether I take the varsity game and find a sub for the JV game or simply turn down the varsity game. I came to the conclusion I'd rather leave my schedule open and run the risk of enjoying an off day.

I guess some people enjoy umpiring enough to work by themselves, but I'm serious in that I would give it up before I would work by myself. I don't love it that much and it's not like I do this for the money.

Wow, what a short sighted comment. It may not be their "mission" but it's definitely in their own best interests in the long run.

Just curious, what is the pay scale for the cheap bas#$ards in one man/sub varsity.

Baseball is $72-77 depending on where the school is (out-of-metro pays slightly more then the metro area), both for 2-person varsity and 1-person non-varsity.

Softball is $64-69, for both varsity and non-varsity.

That's very interesting to me. What is the going rate up there for a 2 man crew?

we have a flat rate of $50 for varsity or non-varsity. we recieve a flat rate of $12 for mileage unless you are at a school outside austin area. i like the flat rate system we use in basketball . we get $12 for 15 miles from downtown, $18 for 25 miles and so on. works well for me because i live in outer area and get to call in my area alot. it makes up for driving into town 60 miles roundtrip for $12.

Which charity do you give your game fees? Or do you not take pay at all? Better for taxes that way I presume. :rolleyes:

That's not what he said. I'll paraphrase Rich from another thread a long time ago: "I don't do this for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free, either."

I see that someone I've ignored has referenced me. I'm sure it has to do with my saying "I don't do it for the money." Oh, OK, I'll look, but only so I'm not off-base in my reply. Yup, OK.

Well, I don't. A $60 game fee, after vehicle/fuel costs and my $30 meal and beers after a game doesn't exactly leave me with a lot of money. The only thing a game fee does is help me get close enough (on either direction) to breaking even.

My free baseball is the baseball I work and the time I spend teaching clinics and doing other things for Little League. Of course, none of the coaches and local administrators are getting paid to do that, either.

:rolleyes:So working for game fees - which like any income is spent on cars, food and booze - is working for free? Gimme a break. $30 for a meal.:eek: Every meal? Where do you eat La Frenchattoria.

I don't get your objection STB to what Rich said, but then again a lot of people here, most of the time, don't get what you're saying.

Take it for what is worth. If I am AD I am not paying to develop umpires, I expect assignor to take care of that, that is what I pay for. Willing to live with shortcomings at sub-varsity because I understand.

Around here all games are two umpires, even 9-10 year olds. But no one is doing 2 to develop umpires. An umpire who has to work alone is a screwup, and I have only worked one Varsity game in my life lonesome, and it was 2 Private schools playing, and I gave the teams options at the plate meeting.

Turns out that game was 2-1 and done in 1:30 and they paid me 1.5 game fee on site. I did not have that game until 2:00 that day. Not bad in my book.

Even in professional baseball
 

Yep. Most others seem to understand it.

It's typical troll behavior. Latch onto a portion of a post, take it out of context and make ridiculous statements.

It's similar to the pros...Minor league teams pay for umpires, but they understand that they are a development league for those umpires.

JV teams around here understand the same. Umpires do not go from signing up to working Varsity. The JV level is a developmental level for many areas. If JV AD's insisted on Varsity level officials only, they would have a lot of games with no umpires.

Let me be clear then.

I hear all the time about umpires who give their services for the "love of the game" and/or they attempt to rationalize taking game fees as a "wash" where the income = expense. It's a load of garbage and when taken to the task on how it is that expenses=income, you get ridiculous comments such as Fronheiser's $30 dinner and booze intake being the expenses that wash the income.

Be real. If you want to use umpiring as a charitable act, fine, don't take the fees, eat a homemade sandwich and drink bottled water. Hell, you still have a net loss you can write off against your taxable income.

Note btw that no one on this forum has stepped up to say "Hey, I do it for the income and I enjoy doing it as well". At least that's the truth, it's honest and it is forthright.

Questions?

What you fail to comprehend , is that Rich DOES volunteer his services with a baseball organization and he has stated as such in this thread.

Quite frankly I DON'T umpire for the money. I do it because I love the game and enjoy umpiring. The money is nice but it's not why I do it and I could make a lot more doing other things with my free time. I choose not to because I don't enjoy them nearly as much as I do officiating. Like the vast majority of us, I turn very little profit officiating. I'd say I don't get why this is so hard to understand, but I know you're just trolling.

With that, time to stop feeding the troll. Just can't help myself sometimes.

[QUOTE=Welpe;754108]This is the concept of opportunity cost, and your application of it is exactly right. But it's confusing for some people.

Amen.

I refrained from quoting him on purpose. Your welcome.

I umpire for the hospitality table.

So exactly who are you to determine why Rich does it? We all officiate for different reasons, most of us have a combination of reasons. Guys that do it "solely" for the money won't last because, as Welpe notes, there isn't enough money in it to make it worth it.

Basically, if you don't love the game, you won't be officiating it. If you don't get paid at all, you won't be officiating either.

Like I said, a combination of reasons.

Again, I don't get what you're objection to Rich's statement is. What you just tried to pass off as a reason sounded like complete BS. Who are you to question Rich's or anyone else's love of the game? You are literally the only person I've ever met that got all in arms about this. Everyone on this forum understands Rich's point. It's a point that not only those that officiate baseball but do other sports. Let's not kid ourselves here, if anyone is going to stick it out at this level for any length of time, there has to be some love for whatever sport you officiate.

It's obvious that everyone here gets it. Well, except the troll.

I can easily live without the money that comes from officiating. I'm lucky in that regard, although I remember when I was in grad school and counted on officiating money to be able to do things other than eat ramen noodles every night for dinner. Back then I worked as many games as I could every day as long as it didn't interfere with my classes and schoolwork.

If people are working $60 games for the money, they're in the wrong business. Sure, the game itself may only take 90 minutes, but working a game involves a lot more than the time actually spent calling balls and strikes. Subtract out the cost of driving to a game (my baseball around here, with the exception of one or two schools pays NO travel money at all) and the driving time and the time away from my wife and daughter, and it's not a great bargain. If I didn't love it, on some level, I sure as hell wouldn't keep doing it.

+1

Don't forget the 45 minute minimum pre game and the 30 minute post game meeting. I am sure the majority of us do it for the money. That $12-15 average is too inticing. STB must have plenty of money considering how much time he has to hang around and stir up messes.

Well I don't know that it is. Minor league teams pay peanuts for umpires, but they don't expect to play with just one to save money.

And if an AD wants Varsity level umpires all he/she has to do is ask for them and pay more, $10 more per game around here, but assignor is going to balk at sending one, and no one would ask. And even then they not going to get the grizzled veterans, they will get 3-4 year "veterans".

Wow. Here, Varsity umpires work varsity. JV umpires are working their way up. If an AD asked for Varsity Umpires for a JV game the assignor would laugh. We have an agreement with the schools that the top umpires are assigned to work varsity games. Sub varsity games are assigned next with what's left, starting with those with JV experience and working the way down to newbies.

What happens to the fees you refuse?:rolleyes:

Granted.Total BS, I know hundreds of umpires whose game fees are the difference between them paying their bills and living off the welfare dole in a flea bag apartment.

Then don't take it especially to satisfy your need for $30 dinners and post game booze. Go to McDonald's and drink less. It's called moderation.

Plenty and I quit taking game fees years ago. I teach for free internationally on my dime. I collect umpire's equipment and give it away to international umpires in need either for free or they pay the cost of shipping. Tens of thousands of $$$ every year.

IOW, I walk the walk.

When I worked for fees, I did it because I was very happy to have either the extra income or income to keep the doors open in the Best's household. I was never once ashamed of my officiating profession or ashemaed to admit that I need to work games for the security and comfort of my family.

It is absolutely hypocritical to not lay straight your need for the money, admit it and move on. There's no shame in that yet where are the ones on this forum who are not ashamed to admit it? At this point, not one person except for myslef has done so. What are the chances that the hundreds of umpires on TOF, posting here, that none, zero, of them don't need the income?

Strange? Not around here where forum talk is the talk and the walk is nonexistent.

That's because they made you stop umpiring years ago.

Maybe, but not umpiring.

Great! I've got some. Why don't you PM your name and address so I can send it to you?

Just like Christopher Reeve.

There's a difference between umpiring solely for the money and umpiring because it's a hobby you enjoy that also pays.

If given a choice between 8, 1.5 hour time limit, 9U games on a Saturday in your home town @ $30, and 1 D-2 game , 1.5 hours away @$125, most "umpires only for the money) would take the former; most others would take the latter.

Most (and there are exceptions, on both sides) who do it only for the money show up just before game time, leave immediately after, don't study the rules or mechanics, wear old wrinkled / dirty clothes, etc. They often are the Smittys.

I, too, know umpires who umpire for the money and who don't fall into that description. That wasn't (I am quite certain) what Rich was talking about. I'm also quite certain that posters who pretend not to understand that actually do.