Thoughts on this situation. (video)
 

First, what do you think of the call? Second, what do you think about the 2 ejections?

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Wrong position for PU to make the call.

Regarding ejections...I couldn't hear what the coaches had to say.

Looks like the player must have said a magic word. The assistant coach sounds like he says "That's G*DD*MNED ridiculous".

My thought is who would eject after the game has ended and for what? I understand that you can do so in FED while in still in the "vicinity" of the playing field.

I don't necessarily think that he was in a bad position. He had the ball in the OF, and retreated to a good spot IMO. I know that the book may want him on the third base line extended, but I think he had a great angle where he was since the runner was between he and the catcher.

The plate umpire was a step or two on the third base side of 1st BLX. The runners body blocked his view of the plate. He should have taken the play at 3rd BLX, and would have if he let the developing play dictate his position.

The angle the camera had was the positioning the PU should have had. CLOSE, but I had him safe.

Illini - Post game ejections are a great tool for us. Why should an act that would have been an ejection 1 pitch earlier not be an ejection after the 3rd out?
If your state doesn't suspend 1 game for an ejection, then yes it would be pointless.

OK, the umpire took the play at the wrong place and the runner was safe. Let's look beyond that.

It's the last play of the game. I'm calling a runner out and walking out of the park. I'm not sticking around to see what they think of my call. I know what the offense thinks (regardless of whether it's correct) and I know what the defense thinks. I won't avoid a post-game ejection, but they'll be yelling at my back.

Rich, I totally agree, but the coach jawed at the umpire as he was passing him. The umpire appeared to linger to wait on his partner, as he should.

I also think that we sometimes HAVE to act, regardless of WHEN. A coach would not allow his kids to say the same thing to him when they disagree, so he shouldn't expect to get away with it either.

For the record, this is not me, or a game I was at. I saw it on another board and thought it was good for discussion here.

Depends on what's said. I'd expect some jawing that normally, during the game, I'd have to stop. After the game's over, I'll give them a bit more rope because I'm heading for the car.

In this case, I have no idea what was said. The base umpire should've been quicker leaving the field, too.

1. PU has fair/foul, catch/no-catch responisibilty and goes up the line. (two man sytem has him in precarious position already.

2. PU then realizes R1 may get to plate and retreats. Not quite sure he could of got best position for that play, 3b extended.

3. Ball beats runner.

4. Catcher makes nice swipe tag.

5. PU, from probably the best acheivable position he can get, makes a good call without the aid of instant replay.

6. Not quite sure what player said, so it was probaly a good EJ.

7. PU needs to head directly to gate and go home after that.

JMO

I'm guessing that he ejected the player for good reason. The movement towards the dugout may have been to get the correct number for the report to the state association. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that. He appeared to be leaving but waiting for his partner (we don't know where the exit is). The coach said whatever he did while he was passing him. I see no problems with anything. Sounded like the coach said "that's G*DD*MNED ridicuolous." At the HS level, he probably needs dumped.

PU had time to come back to plate and move to far 1st BLX. He had time to get a better position. It was no farther away, just a different direction.
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Having the advantage to view it again, the first ejections seem to be for the runner throwing his helmet. The second to an A$$-istant coach for mouthing off as he passed by. Although I'd have preferred he got off the field, or at least away from the plate right after the play, I don't have a lot of heartburn over either one.

Terrible positioning, lazy retreat after going out on catch/no catch; tag on back when scoring R hand and chest are clearly on or past the plate; terrible call.

EJ (hopefully) justified since the player past right by PU. 2nd EJ, if it was loud enough and egregious enough to warrant an EJ, then good on PU.

"Terrible positioning"? What was he supposed to do turnaround and run full speed to 3b ext? Don't think so. He has to backpeddle to keep the play in front of him.

Right hand never touched the plate. Did you look at any of the video? First hand to touch was left hand and by then F2 has the tag.

Oh, c'mon. There were 7 to 8 seconds between the the fly ball hitting the ground and the play at the plate. The PU was in fair territory. All he had to do was go the same distance in a different direction and he would have been where he should have been. It wasn't an issue of time, it was an issue of judgment.

Play needs to be taken 3BX extended no questions asked. Probably even a bit further towards 1B line as the swipe tag came through on the backside of the runner and that is the only position you can see through the bodies. 95% of close tag plays at the plate on batted balls should be taken 3BX anyways. That collision play really only happens if the ball is waiting there for the runner, other than that its always going to turn into swipe tag.

Player tossed his helmet a bit, I'm not looking to pick that booger. Never say never, who knows if something else was said or what. But just off the video PU seemed to lose control just the way he was walking around.

If I banged the out, I'd stay right where I was and deal with it if someone was looking for a confrontation. The player retreated to the dugout. That's where I want him to go. Unless he said something very bad, that EJ is just going to look bad. He's going away, let him go.

Then, I would NEVER turn around and say what he said to that AC. "You know what? You're done too?" Totally unprofessional. And I would NEVER return back to the plate once I walked away.

I won't pretend to know the history here or what was said, which could change everything. All I can go by is what I saw.

My jacket would probably be tucked in too.:p

Im not saying he could'nt have got there, I'm just saying "terrible" is a little over-exaggarating.

Well said. PU had no reason to stick around for anything. Game is over, get out of dodge. If runner, player or coach want to mouth off, I'm not within earshot.

This PU stayed around way too long.

Also I thought he was actually safe, as the tag was late, but that's umpires judgement, so he's entitled to his opinion. ;)

thanks
David

Originally Posted by Simply The Best http://forum.officiating.com/images/...s/viewpost.gif
Terrible positioning, lazy retreat after going out on catch/no catch; tag on back when scoring R hand and chest are clearly on or past the plate; terrible call.

EJ (hopefully) justified since the player past right by PU. 2nd EJ, if it was loud enough and egregious enough to warrant an EJ, then good on PU.
You are right, I need to remember that this umpire is being paid according to his expertise and ability. For $75/hr, he has done well. My bad. My umpires earn twice that and are required to pull back and get the up the line vantage point keeping the play in front of them at all times. Which btw, the play bypassed this umpire as the throw passed him well before the slide.R = runner. ;)

Who earns $75 an hour in a high school game? That's a pretty damn good high school game fee.

Not all umpires are trained as well as others, including "your" umpires, and that sometimes is reflected on the field. Not an excuse, just how it is. Most high school associations take who they can get and quite a few have a shortage of umpires.

As for the play, I'm with the guys who said he needed to get off the field whether he got the call right or not. I don't see the helmet flip if it's me and unless the player or the AC say something way out of line, I'm ignoring it and meeting my partner at the gate.

$75 for east coast big cities.

This never would have happened if he just tuck in the jacket.

I believe our game fees are the highest in the country.

$78.50 - Jr. High School (2 hr. limit)
$96.00 - JV
$115 - Varsity

I also think high fees tend to attract "umpires" who do it for the wrong reason. I recently e-mailed a partner with whom I had never worked about an upcoming game that was in doubt because of weather. His response: "Let's hope the rain holds off long enough for us to get paid."

That says it all.

Your umpires earn twice that for HS ball? Yea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you've been re-reading way too many of your opinions here.

Let's see...twice the $75/hour figure, so $150/hr or about $300 for HS ball. uh-huh.

Don't know, very few of my trained umpires officiate FED.I quite agree, I have seen none as well trained and schooled in my international travels. The physical requirements alone are exceedingly stringent, book knowledge of OBR and local rule interpretations unparralleled, consistent game control, precise and unchanging mechanics and a plethora of other conditions of certification. Which is why I allowed that our lazy, plump PU in question is most probably worth his pay.;)Each to his own but FED rules require post game vigilance for matters involving ejectionable offenses.

Any part of your fee you would like to give to my favorite charity, feel free to PM and I will arrange.;)

Plays at the plate are all really hard. I thought the positioning wasnt bad cause it could be a blocked plate.

Call- not bad but the timeing was rushed. Hard to tell but I had him safe.

Ejections- Try to keep them in the game. First one, maybe cause the PU was right there. But the second one, the PU shouldnt have to walk back to make an ejection because if you are far enough away to have to come back then just igonre them unless they are yelling or say something personal i.e. "You suck". Walking back toward somebody to make an ejection looks really agressive.

Handling people who argue really seperates the good officials from the bad.

What?

Then why did you bring up the money thing since this is a FED game we're discussing?

:rolleyes:

He may have not gotten to the ideal position, but I really don't think this guy was lazy. He moved out for the catch/no-catch in the outfield and then retreated for the play at home. A lazy umpire would have stood behind the plate for the catch/no-catch.

I agree, but unless it's egregious, I'm getting off the field. We don't know what the runner or the AC said, so the ejections could have been well warranted, but it looked odd that the PU went back toward the dugout to EJ the AC. I'm all for dumping someone who needs to be dumped though.

MrUmpire,

I believe he said, "I'm kinda' new at this." and, "I don't really believe in punctuation, but I'm willing to fake it a little."

Of course, I'm not really fluent, so I may have missed some of the "nuance".

JM