A LLWS Observation
 

So, I was bored and decided to watch a little of the LLWS to see how the officiating was doing. In the bottom of the 6th inning of the Ohio vs New Jersey game, there was a "routine" whacker at 1st (not really close but at this level it was).

The BR touched 1st a split second after F3 caught a bounding throw. U1 called the BR out and the 1st base coach (the manager) appealed the call and asked the umpires if the umpires would get together. They did and the decision was the BR was out. The manager now goes to the PU and requests to contest this call, in which the PU goes to the backstop to speak to the "baseball god", who upholds the call - BR is out.

Now, I know that LL has changed and has gone to the kissy-kissy, let's all have a group hug, board meeting, but for kramity's sake isn't that enough? Now "daddy coach" can contest even that call to the "baseball god" behind the backstop? Oh, and this "baseball god" can over rule the decision of the 4 or 6 umpires on the field!

Personally, that's enough to make me puke! Let me tell you this, my answer to the manager's original appeal request would have been, "I've got the call, Joe. I have him out, it's my call and no one else's. We are done with this, no Joe... back to the game.". And believe me folks, that is exactly how I handle these situations.

The only time I get into a huddle about my call is if I do not have enough information to make the call. And seeing as how I do not make a call unless I have enough information, I do not call a huddle of my partner(s). I make sure that I am in the proper position and I have all of the information needed to render my call. There is no need to huddle nor will I entertain a request for one and yes, I have ejected coaches who kept insisting!

You are exactly right; my son was watching the game and I came in and saw the same play. What was PU going to ask his partners? It's U3 call, he made it, if coach has a problem, go ask U3.

Of course, the replay idea is still horrible IMO. But, my son said there was a play earlier in the game that was overruled. So i ran it back (thanks for DVR), and it was. Of course, that call the runner was safe by two steps and the umpire called him out.

Umpire didn't get good position and blew it badly. So, I can hear people saying, "Oh at least they got it right." :eek:

Thanks
David

So, the announcers just said that they couldn't overturn the call because the "clear and convincing" evidence wasn't there. Guess what they did? Reversed the call. (I don't have HDTV so will reserve judgment. It was close.)

This Saudi Arabian team (of all US citizens, it seems) is AWFUL... how does this team get to this point in a tourney. WOW.

Because the teams they played in their regional we even awfuler.

Ozzy:

You have to stop holding your feeling in. Please let us know how you really feel. Don't hold back. :D

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I agree with you.

When I first started doing LL, it was always the same ole crap, coach comes out and ask my partner what his call was because he didn't like mine. Now we automated that process and given the coaches a machine to ask. Next we will be having audience participation Gallup Polls. We will also have a bunch of drone umpires, whose only words besides out, safe, ball and strike will be "yes boss", "anything you says boss".

Any wonder why America is becoming such a lazy as$ whinning complaining do nothing society?

I watched that play that was overruled, and U1 kicked it big time. So, is replay sort of a bassackwards QC check on the fact LL cant/wont ensure competent umpires at their tournament?

Im still waiting for a reversal on a really complicated play.


On a positive note, the plate umpire on last nights game (dont recall the teams) was pretty good. He ralphed a foul ball/HBP incident but his zone was good. Some of these guys are calling strikes the kids couldn't hit with a 8' bat.

Like Denkinger or Joyce?

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

And LLMan took a cheap shot ot the LL umps - implying that they blew it because they were incompetent. I was merely pointing out that anyone can blow one.

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

I've made that mistake before...was it a checked swing inside pitch where the catcher came up blocking him?

That's a tough call at any level...I wouldn't hammer a LL umpire to bad on this type of play...

That being said, I didn't see the play so maybe it was a bad miss.

Can you describe the play?

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

If LL was true to the principles it claimed, I would have no problem doing an LL regional for free. It is not, so it does not deserve a free service.

Well said. At this point, it's strictly a business decision in my opinion. You're not going to get the best umpires, you're going to get the best umpires that will work for free.

We all have Smitty in our areas of the country who will work for next to nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing those of us who will do a game here or there for a reduced or comp'd game fee...or even the little league umpires who choose to work for free (that's your decision) but it's tough to watch them time after time, making critical mistakes on ESPN...and for the casual fan out there, they see the shenanigans pulled by the coaches toward the umpires and the Wizard of OZ behind the curtain for rulings...it doesn't make the rest of us look very good.

Or some might say...it makes the rest of us look very good.

None of us are immune from missing a call here or there, I'm not dumb enough to state otherwise.

If you merely want to point out that anyone can blow one, you should compare the LL umpires to someone at their level, you for example.

To compare them to trained professionals with years of major league experience is laughable.

Mrumpiresir,

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value.

Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seemed pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV. Probably more "over-hustle" than under.

Most of the "mistakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested...:rolleyes: ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

Crass maybe. Uninformed and shallow, get a grip. I expect all umpires at every level to work toward excellence as we all should. Study the rules and mechanics and learn how to umpire. I guess I am expecting more from these guys.

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

I regret that you have a problem with my post, but be more specific and I will address those issues.

I'm thinking UmpJM does have a very firm grip. The doctor diagnosed precisely.

This is Little League. "The kids deserve it." Just like they deserve the travesty of "personal profiles," and "favorite foods" and - God help us all, instant reply.

Little League needs to regain its bearings. It is a ship adrift, morally.

3 out of 6 overturned?????
 

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but as I was turning a channel yesterday, I thought I saw a graphic posted that said six calls were appealed to replay, and three were overturned. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.

If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA, or the replay system is a farce. What calls went to the replay booth?

I reread my comment and decided yes, I was somewhat harsh. Of course we have all kicked a call or three in our time (except Tee :D )...and no, Ive never had the eyes of Frosted Flakes World boring holes in me whilst I was on the field.

But it still makes me think that LL is, for whatever reasons, unable/unwilling to disturb the seniority/spoils system that it has had for years in selecting the crews for the Big Show.....but obviously they perceive an issue, or there wouldn't be a replay program in the first place.

Maybe this is all they can think up as a work-around for their selection system...trying to use technology to band-aid poor personnel policy.


But, I'm not that familiar with how the LL Big Dogs are chosen beyond what I read here, so perhaps my perception is incorrect.

On another positive note, the New Jersey/Hawaii game was excellently played, a treat to watch. The NJ play catching the foul ball/cutting down the runner at the plate was superb.

Why? If we believe ESPN, then 20% of "close" plays would have been overturned in MLB. And, my guess is that if a similar review system were in place, that a percentage greater than that would be overturned.

Plus, the sample size (6 plays in LLWS) is too small to draw any significant conclusions.

Very true. However, only 1 of the 3 overturns were close. The out call at third yesterday was AWFUL (not to mention U3 was out of position).

I think we all agree 6 umpires (plus however many cameras) is WAY too many for this tiny field... but has anyone else noticed the outfield umpires chasing the ball on overthrows? Dude - where are you going and what are you looking for. Ball's on the ground - no need to follow the fielder to the ball.

Anyone catch U2 going "out" on a fly ball down the right field line in the Texas game yesterday? Ugh. Ball landed about 2 feet from URF. And no rotation from U3. (Side question ... if U2 goes out, U3 heads to 2nd --- does ULF go to third? Never worked or read 6-man)

Little League is a joke from top to bottom. (Includes parents, coaches, sponsors, umpires.....anyone involved)

- They have pimped the kids for TV dollars.

- They instituted a bogus 85 pitch count to make it look like they care about the kids................then they let the kids throw curve balls on 57 of the 85.

- Instant replay ? You gotta be kidding me !! I don't know what's worse, the fact that they instituted instant replay or the fact that they needed to !

- Miking coaches and umpires ? See above !!

- Team selection is as political as any process around.


Way to teach 'em young !! Got a whole new group of prima donna's on the way.

Yep...plate guy stays home. Nice to have 6 if you can stay out of each other's way....:D

JJ

Over the 9 years I was involved in LL umpiring and doing the whole deal (local league UIC, regional umpire school, annual regional clinic, umpiring a regional) I was told the following about LLBB 6 man:

1) They first went to 6 man so every umpire at the regional got a TV game, nobody got left out. And face it, if you're an ump at any level being on national TV on ESPN is a big deal. Note: Back then they didn't go to 6 man until the semis and the finals.

2) When they went to 6 man for all regional games it was to (a) overall give umpires more games in the tournament (b) a way to "hide" a umpire who maybe wasn't at the "level" he needed to be at as they moved deeper into the tournament, yet still give him assignments. (c) to eliminate problems that occurred far to often with rotations when a base umpire went out.*

3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

*There was a situation that occurred in a LLWS game (prior to my regional in 2002) where in a 6 man crew with R1 on 1B, there was a ball hit to CF and the 2BU got him self "caught" between "should I go out or should I cut in?"....he got stuck and kind of turned around in no man's land and had no look at R1 missing 2B by a lot. After that they changed to the 2BU does not go out mechanic. We were told the story by our regional UIC and his staff at our clinic.

3)

The enitre LL bylaws could be replaced with just 4 rules:

1. Steve Keener knows what's best for baseball.
2. Steve Keener knows what's best for kids.
3. Steve Keener is never wrong.
4. Steve Keener is always right.

3) The instructions we were given regarding 6 man at the pre-tournament clinic for my regional was that the base umpires were not to go out...PERIOD. Trouble in the outfield would be handled by either the RFU or LFU. Trouble in CF? If the CF was moving to his left, RFU's call; to his right, LFU's call; dead center going back, RFU. Why? If it wasn't caught and there was a chance of a throw to 3rd, they wanted the LFU on his line to assist should there be an overthrow to 3rd.
The 2BU was told his job was to get his tail into the infield on any ball hit to the OF.

This explains why on every "trouble" ball hit to CF, U3 always had his head down and was busting inside. I told my wife that I wished the CCA manual had it diagrammed like that, so I could "hide" the #4 that I've never worked with!

Know what ... I have trouble envisioning a "trouble" ball on this field with 6 guys. I mean, first, what's the maximum distance from an umpire? 75 feet or so? Second - who cares if they see it at all - we have replay!

Bob, Sorry I disagree
 

Bob,

In another thread I think the 20% number is shown to be incorrect. Anyway, my ability to trust ESPN with numbers about umpires is very, very limited, to the point of non-existence.

More to the point, if the best umpires LL can find by its criteria are in PA, overturning 3 calls by replay in 22 games is a big number to me. Would you personally have missed 3 calls in any set of 132 innings you have called this year that would lead to them being overturned on replay?

How many of us on this board would think that 3 overturned calls in about 19 7 inning games or about 15 nine inning games by us is a good job by us as umpires in those games?

Would you be happy about it? Would you accept that performance as adequate, or outstanding?

Outstanding! ...
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(Out standing in a line looking for a new job at least).

I just returned home from taking my son to the Little League World Series. Being there makes you realize how over crowded a small diamond is with six umpires. Most of the comments I heard about the umpires from the crowd were about how consistently tight the strike zone was in Williamsport, compared to the regionals. I thought the plate umpire in both games we saw was excellent and the first over turned call right in front of us. It was well worth the trip.

Now that's a great line.

Well, for me, I've never worked 4 man or 6 man, but if I did, yes, I would think that very few should be overturned by a crew that has proper mechanics and is in proper position, while using proper timing.

However, many of us have read the articles that prove that scientifically, the human eye and brain can't process information as well as the cameras on the super-close plays. In those cases, if there was replay in my game and I missed one of those, or if I got it right, I'd chalk it up to a good guess or a miss (coin flip) and not feel bad about it.

I'm not immune from making mistakes and I would venture to say that many of the guys on here who have worked a lot of baseball wouldn't compare their games to any other games because each game has it's own dynamics...some games are easy, some games are tougher based on the unique events of each game.

two outs into the game and the coach goes to 3BU to ask for help on a tag because his runner said that he wasn't tagged.

announcers say..."great job on the crew getting together to make sure the call was right"

simply because the runner says that he wasn't tagged. setting a bad precedent for baseball america (not the umpires fault) they might be instructed to get together on this stuff at the request of the coaches and TD

It just keeps getting better...

In discussion of the LLWS replay...announcers quote:

"I just hope MLB is watching this LLWS"

[QUOTE]I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.

Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth

If MLB is watching this LLWS, I'm sure it's an anti-endorsement of replay. It's such a joke every time any coach questions ANYTHING, the entire crew gets together. So stupid. I know they have to ... the stupid goes to those who make them.

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]I agree Pete. I've called games for years that were televised, been in large venue tournaments, etc., but I would NOT want to call a game under the microscope that LL is put under.

Simply, I don't believe that it gives the umpires a fair shake. I can count on one hand the number of conferences that I've had with umpires over the last five years during games; but, if you are doing LL, they must require you to bow to every whim of the coaches, because that's what the umpires on TV are doing every game.

Thansk
David

I don't know why they bother to make the initial call. *shrug*

[QUOTE=David B;689978]I swear that if I was ever forced to call a conference on a call that was clearly mine, I'd get to the conference and say, "So ... what are we going to get Milly for a wedding present?"

[QUOTE=mbcrowder;689981]That would be awesome, because they're miked up too.

Candlesticks are always a nice wedding present....... :D

We can find out where she's registered......

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]+1

Ha! I can see it now:

Close play at a base -- no call -- "Time!" -- go to monitor -- ruling is.... "He's out!" :eek:

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]I know these umpires have not taken this seriously because they have apparently not educated themselves on the rules or the mechanis of a good umpire.

I have been on TV but not National TV, that's irrelevant. Once you step on the field, you call your game.

The basis for my response is If you are going to umpire, learn the rules. Learn proper mechanics.

Pfft. Did you watch? Holy cow. The opinion that these guys were awful is based on the fact that they were awful. The fact that they work for free seems to absolve them of the responsibility to not suck in your book. Not in mine. Bad calls happen. But consistent bad positioning, bad mechanics, unnecessary overhustle, lack of rules knowledge, etc. (One thing I will give them is that I haven't seen any laziness at all - but I guess that's a little easier working just one game with a 6 man crew).

Oh, and a PS about television. I've been there. Once. It was a HUGE discussion point in the locker room before the game. We were definitely more on edge before the game. (And this was football, not baseball or softball). But those telling you that once the game starts you work your game are correct. Once we got into the pregame rhythm it became rote, and once the game started we'd forgotten entirely about the cameras.

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

Fact is, those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down. There is no way you can defend their performance.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers, does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.

If you think this is ok.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.

KJU, just a moment
 

My impression is that most of us are not happy with the leadership of LL Baseball for putting the umpires in an untenable situation more than the umpires themselves. That is my belief.

However, having said that you can't ignore the fact that some of these umpires have not done the quality work we want them to do, or they themselves want to do. the point of the matter is that the LLWS umpires represent all of us as umpires, we are all a brotherhood whether we like or not, and their ability to get the call right (or blow it sky high) are a reflection on us as a group. I want those guys to have a good time, do a good job, and enjoy themselves. Do you really think they are having a great time when the TV lens is looking over their shoulder every minute, and their partners blow calls because they are not doing what they should be doing on the field? And all the time the LL leadership is turning them into a tool of ESPN to throw all umpires under the bus?

I can see Joe Blow working 1B in an ESPN game, and his family friends and the like are watching and taping it too. Then Joe makes a mistake he shouldn't have, and the tape doesn't lie; it shows he missed the call from here to eternity, and he was not mechanically sound, which led to the missed call.

So now this LLWS umpire is overturned by replay, let's review:

1. ESPN has thrown him under the bus: "Well Joe Blow of poorhouse, anywhere, the 1B umpire just blew that call badly, replay will overturn it."
2. LL has thrown him under the bus again: "We have replay because we want to get the calls right (i.e. 'We don't trust our umpires and Joe Blow's missed call is a prime example as to why')."
3. Now, every time Joe has a wacker the rest of the event he has fans, the coaches, and everyone but his dog questioning him and his competence. Even if he is right, he will be assumed wrong until replay shows everyone he is right.
4. Then he gets to go home, and everyone says, "hey great call you blew on TV at the LLWS."

Yeah, KJU, you have some good points, but the other side does too. Listen to them.

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690174]Fact is,
I haven't seen you post one quantifiable fact, just opinion.

those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down.
Live what down? With whom? Who cares? You think in the next game you work a coach is having LLWS flashbacks as he watches you work the game?

There is no way you can defend their performance.
Go back and read my posts. I haven't said anything about their performance on the field...positive or negative. What I have said is to show them some respect and to stop slamming them.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers,

does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.
They call ball, strike, fair, foul, safe and out, they cut into the diamond when the ball is hit to the OF. That's basic LL mechanics, there's nothing lacking. You might not like how they do it...but hey you're not a LL ump.
Lack of rules knowledge? Care to be specific?

If you think this is ok
I'm not their tournament UIC. It's his opinion that matters.

.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.[/QUOTE]
And just what are those expected qualities? Obviously they're different than LLBB's.

Anyone that knows they are going on TV and goes on TV anyway (which this entire process is obvious they are going to be on TV) is going to get criticized. If you do not want to be criticized, then do not go on TV. If these are "volunteers" then they are volunteering to be on TV. Having been on TV several times myself I did not seek that opportunity, but knew it was realistic if I was going to accept certain assignments or work in the post season. And anything you do on TV is subject to criticism. It comes with the territory. But unlike a situation where I have been on TV, I did not know for sure I would even get the opportunity. These umpires knew they were going to be on TV somewhere in this day and age. If it were me I would do things to not look like I do not know what I am doing. I know it is Little League, but the adults cannot be that naive to think no one is watching.

Peace

I've got no problem with anything you said. You've represented "the other side" with a great analysis of what's been happening over the past week.
You took the time to look at in a rational manner and made several excellent points. None of which were "these guys are terrible, incompetent, they suck, etc." You displayed some empathy to these guys, and in doing so, showed them some respect. When the discussion is on that level, I have no problem listening.

While I may have perspective, I find the performance of many of the umpires embarrassing. I think there are enough top-notch umpires out there working LLBB that they could staff the WS with decent umpires -- instead they treat the WS assignment as more of a gold watch for lifelong service to LL rather than any indication of umpiring ability. It's a shame. It's also not going to change.

I love watching all the base umpires in a 6-umpire system mindlessly pivoting into the infield for no good reason. I don't applaud that, however.

Why do they use 6 anyways...the homerun is only 120 feet away.

Another missed call last night in the Ohio/Hawaii game at second base...these calls aren't that hard move to get an angle.

Missed a huge check (full swing) swing last night (OH vs HI), the PU asked the ump first base ump and he didn't respond had to ask him twice. Bobby Valentine was all over him...the PU should have gotten the swing it was completely obvious.

[QUOTE=KJUmp;690178]In a regional game, I don't remember the teams, with a runner on first, a ground ball was hit to the infield. The runner was forced at second and the throw to first went out of play. They awarded the batter - runner third base. WHY?? One of the other five umps should have corrected this. On another play, did you see the first base ump emphatically call the runner out as the ball sailed past the fielder? Extremely bad timing. A batter was walked on ball three. Routine calls badly missed. The list goes on. Have you not been watching? We have to live this down because we are all "Brothers in Blue" and what they do reflects on all of us. These are not just opinion.

I especially enjoy "foul ball" being bellowed out by the plate umpire as the ball is rolling back down the screen behind the plate.

225. I've worked in the outfield on a small diamond. On balls hit to center field, you're still a long way away. And many crews will *not* send out U2 because they're afraid U3 won't rotate up to second so you get an umpire running away from a baseball instead of simply turning and ruling on the ball in the outfield. Everything is dumbed down for no good reason.

They are when the umpires don't have the baseball sense to take a few quick steps and a lean where necessary.

What you see on TV is not what you see everywhere, BTW. When our top district umpires (who all either worked or still work the WIAC, NAC, etc.) have a coach come out and ask for a kumbaya gathering, we tell them it isn't going to happen and that's the end of it. When I work on the bases, I stay outside the diamond as much as possible, including plays at second (unless the ball is hit to straight-away center field). I'm guessing we're not the typical district, though -- although after the top 5-6 umpires, we probably are.

5 of us in the district (not me, although I worked a Senior Regional -- I haven't applied to go to the LL regional cause I prefer working on a normal sized diamond) have worked a LL (majors) regional and one worked the LLWS. 1 of those assignments was a gold watch assignment. 3 of the other 4 worked plates in the regional final and the fourth worked U1 (and should've had a plate, but typical LL politics got in the way).

I enjoy (even more) watching the base umpires thrust their hands up like someone has a gun in their back on foul balls to the screen. I've worked with umpires that do this while I'm handing the catcher another baseball.

I've read the account of the umpire working first (who actually should've known the location of the BR TOT, since he would've watched the release from F4 to read the throw before focusing on the call at first). Being on TV keeps a lot of people from stepping up, I think.

Truth is, an award of third on this play should be so rare that eyebrows should've immediately raised when the award was made.

Enough bashing. Time to start work for the day. First FB game tonight.

While I applaud your "show them some respect" mantra - surely you can't be serious here... are you watching? Are you reading here? My brother knows that it takes 4 balls to walk a batter, and he knows the base awards... and he's not umpired his first game yet. It's not like these guys have had to deal with one of the TWP's we post here and argue about, or a typical cluster-F that an 8U umpire deals with every week. The rules they have screwed up, and the mechanics they have completely botched are elementary.

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690210]This still makes me chuckle.

I've lost track of the count before, so I won't crawl up their butts for that. Anyone who hasn't lost a ball or rung up strike two either hasn't been doing this long or is lying.

And in terms of mechanics, I can't agree more. They'll dutifully pivot in unnecessarily on a clean hit, but can't bother to take a quick step or two and lean in order to get the right angle on an actual play.

I'm afraid replay will actually lower the expectations of LL -- they'll be happy to bring even more terrible people to the WS (You managed the concession stand for 30 years? Well, we contract that function out in WP and pay for it (imagine that), but would you like to umpire? No, no real experience necessary. We bring retired DAs all the time.)

My favorite mechanic is the bounding foul ball down the line that hits up against the fence. Meanwhile, the base umpire on that line or the outfield umpire is throwing his hands up and pointing foul like it was a foot from the line and he needs to sell it. Guys, if it's obvious there is no reason to sell it. Everyone in the park and watching on TV knows it was foul.

The one black shirt and 5 light blues ones are killing me...and if i see one more darn goatee or beard on an umpire I am going to scream. Can't shave your mutt for 2 weeks at the LLWS...seriously!

I've never understood this particular bias. There's nothing inherently incompatible about facial hair and umpiring. In fact, once I started wearing a goatee, I received far more respect from coaches than I did when I was clean shaven.

It is just the way it is! It killed me when Jim Joyce was wearing a goatee...looks horrible. Maybe you just became a better umpire...it wasn't because you grew facial hair.

What is up with the red undershirts under the jackets that are black with light blue and white stripes...that looks stupid!

Actually, it was. My thought is that I looked about 15 clean shaven and about 23 with the goatee, but it changed the way coaches interacted with me for the better.

Again, there's nothing inherently incompatible about umpiring and facial hair, even if you don't like it.

I can agree with you on that. In Ohio we're required to wear red undershirts for Fed ball. I find it bizarre.

My dad doesn't like them either. He's 65. :)

There's nothing wrong with properly groomed facial hair. I don't wear it, but it's not like this is one of baseball's unwritten rules... unless Marge Schott is your boss.

I was taught your undershirt should be one of the colors of the stripes (piping) on your shirt/jacket.

They're probably wearing what they're told. I'm sure there's a lot of instruction around appearance. Your boss tells you to wear 'X', then it's typically a good idea to wear 'X'

I was taught that your undershirt should be the same color as the darkest color on the collar but not to be not the same color as the shirt.

Powder Shirt (Navy undershirt)
Cream Shirt (Black Undershirt)
Polo blue Shirt (Black Undershirt)
Black Shirt (white undershirt)
Navy (Red under shirt, since the collar is also Navy, the darkest color on the collar is red)

For High school we wear Navy undershirts under our Navy shirts.

However I can see no logic why red is being worn under black shirts/jackets

And there's nothing incompatible about almost any other appearance item. It IS one of the unwritten societal rules (the extent to which depends on the specific area) and you will be viewed differently (and, thus, your umpiring will be judged differently until there's sufficient specific evidence to overcome it) if you have one.

It might not be "logical", but it's true.

not to get in the middle, but ....
 

Well, uhm, yes.

Maybe not the LLWS, but do you really believe that players and coaches aren't watching the parade of "bad calls" and "arrogant umpires" being shoved down our throats by ESPN, and NOT smacking their chops??

Example:

NABA game a few weeks ago (yeah, I know - already a pacifier away from being a daycare center). Had a banger at first. I take the play in, "review" in my head, and gun the runner out. Typical groaning. Then a voice rings out: "Another good call, Jim Joyce!"**

And that's weeks/months after the 'perfect' game.

So, yeah, I'm thinking a daddy-coach in the sub-HS level is sitting at home thinking up lines to say during his next fall and/or spring season.

**That was almost funny, but there was a better exchange a minute or so later. Player 1: "that was pretty good timing on that play." Player 2: "yeah, the timing was great, but he still f%^&$d up the call!" At least they understood timing!

asdf:
Please be more careful when you're quoting a poster.

In your post #63, you highlighted a reply to post that says at the top, Originally posted by KJump.

That was NOT posted by me. That reply was originally posted by Mrumpiresir. See post #62.

I'm already catching enough heat on what I've posted. I don't need to be taking it for comments I DID NOT post.

And depending on your race, gender, sport or association can change a lot of those things as well.

I have never been asked to remove facial hair except in one conference in basketball. Everyone else has not said a word about it to me or others like me that I am aware of. And this is really not the case at the high school level. Guys wear all kinds of things at the high school level.

Peace

All I did was hit the quote button, just like I have many times in the past.

That's what people who don't like facial hair always say, but I don't really think it is true. My own experience bears out the exact opposite.

So what does that mean? that it's OK for you to attribute a quote to me that I did not post?
It's not my quote. Clearly you can see that. (I hope).
Obviously, you did something the rest of us don't do when we reply post a reply quoting a poster.
Don't misquote people and then brush it off as no big deal.

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690210]Why? Well share a little more information on the play. Was the base award a TOP or a TOT award?
You said R1 was forced at 2nd. How was the force registered? Unassisted? Assisted? Was the throw to 1st the second throw of an infielder? Had the BR already reached 1st at the time of the throw?

No disagreement on the bad timing. Didn't see the play, but we'd all be in agreement bad/poor timing will get anyone at any level in trouble. I've always felt that good timing is the mechanic that is the most difficult to master and the single most important mechanic for any umpire.

Routine calls badly missed....well here again, you're long on criticism and generalizations, but short on specifics and details.

"Brothers in Blue", you are not treating these guys like brother umpires.

Bingo!

[QUOTE=KJUmp;690349]Are you not following the posts on this thread?

OK. Since you did not see the play, the runner definitely had not reached first when the throw was made by the second baseman after recieving the throw from the SS. A no brainer for any serious umpire.

As far as routine calls badly missed, I guess you just weren't watching.

You did not see these games and are trying to defend these guys because you feel I am simply bashing them.

So tell me, How can you make an intelligent argument about things you did not see?

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690354]Yes I am following the posts.

I asked a legit question about the base award call...I didn't disagree with you that maybe they kicked it....I asked for more info. on the play. You answer the question, and then slam the umpires. You've never seen a "serious umpire" boot a call or a ruling?

I've been watching the games, but I'm unable watch every inning of every game on ESPN....I guess you can.

I'm defending the notion that umpires need to be treated with respect from fellow umpires.

And lets make no mistake...all you are doing is bashing them. You've done nothing but bash them since your first post.

Your attitude toward other umpires is no better than that of a rat coach. Do you cop the same arrogant throw 'em under the bus attitude with the umpires in your local association? Never mind, I already know the answer.

[QUOTE=KJUmp;690359]This is getting ridiculous. I pointed out the errors they made. There really is no argument that they did not do a good job as evidenced by the number of serious umpires that have made posts here agreeing to that fact. And yes it is a fact.

Respect is earned. You do not get respect simply because you have a title. I respect every umpire who works to learn the rules and mechanics required to be the best umpire he can be. We've seen some umpires in this series that obviously haven't done this. They have not earned my respect by making themselves and all umpires look bad.

I retired from the US military and don't work full time, so yes, I have time to sit and watch games. I think I earned this time.

I don't throw my fellow umpires under the bus, I tend to explain ways they may do something better, but this seldom happens because they are far better trained than the umpires we've seen in the LLWS.

You really don't know what you are talking about.

Deservedly So.

Ok Einstein, I hit the quote button (just like I did here)...... and what was in the post popped up.

I didn't edit anything, nor did I insinuate anything.

I added a comment that was critical of a mechanic used by more than one umpire this week.

If you have a problem with the quote button, take it up with the board administrator.

psst...... It's not a big deal ;)

I have had to, in the past, ask partners to remove their (sometimes multiple) earrings before we hit the field.

We should never were earrings out...unless they are in your goatee...then it is okay for some folks. :)