coach told him to "block" the base‏
 

All, I had to share this with you....

Today I was an umpire for a 11-yr old "Rec" all-star tourney. In a close play at 3rd base team "A"s 3rd baseman put down his leg to block the sliding runner from team "B" as he took the throw. My partner the base umpire called the runner out because he slid into the 3rd baseman's leg and he never touched the base.

Needless to say team "B"s coach was angry that obstruction wasn't called. We assured him that this play was legal and his player was out. Next half inning team "B"s coach instructed his 3rd baseman to "block" the base if team "A" tries to steal 3rd.

Team "A" runner on 2nd base breaks for 3rd base to steal it. Team "B" 3rd baseman sets up like a good football offensive lineman (hands inside; elbows out) about 8-ft from 3rd base and proceeds to set the oncoming runner on his "keester" as he approaches 3rd base. OMG!!!WTF!!!:eek:

My partner and I quickly killed the play and quickly restored order. I can still see in my mind the stunned runner on his butt and the 3rd baseman who was very proud of his great block!! Team "B"s manager was stunned by his 3rd baseman's action. Team "A"s coaches anger settled quickly, nobody hurt.

Partner and I assessed the situation. We ejected nobody, warned everybody. My reason for not ejecting the 3rd baseman came from personal experience when coaching "youngsters". They sometimes mis-interpret your instructions and do something REALLY stupid. That is what happened in this incident.

THANKFULLY, The game finished without incident in a very harmonious atmosphere. This is a play I will never forget.

Oh, boy. What ruleset?

You kicked the hell out of this one.

Oh, boy. What ruleset?

PONY/OBR....why do you ask? I'd called it the same in Fed


You kicked the hell out of this one.

HTBT.....

Really? In FED you would allow a fielder, without possession of the ball, deny a runner access to a bag?

You'd be dead wrong in FED. 100% OBS.

No, you don't. Your description says it all.

In general, MC is of course a judgment call. I can envision a play where a little runner (remember, these kids are 11U) bounces off a chunky F5 who is firmly planted. Hard to call MC there.

OTOH, I can envision a play (which sounds like the OP) where F5 goes and gets the runner and knocks him on his butt. I'm all for instructional umpiring up to a certain level, but even 11U kids know that's not baseball.

Whether his coach goes too depends on the first words out of his mouth. If it's "Bobby, what the heck are you doing?" he might stay; if it's "Attaboy, Bobby!" buh-bye.

I really hope that as you progress as an official, your reputation is based more upon your ability to apply the rules fairly, when applicable. Rather than just being a "Nice Guy". So ends the lesson.

Sometimes a player will learn from a warning...but they almost always learn when they get ejected for doing something stupid. If you want to teach, enforce the rule properly when the game is being played and leave the coaching to the coaches.

I also understand the educational piece for young kids, but as an official, the more you "teach" on the diamond, IMO you're penalizing the good coaches for teaching their kids properly the first time at practices before it happens on the field. I agree, it is a fine line the younger you go, but I used to try and "help" the kids when I did kiddie ball, and I found that it actually got me in more trouble than it probably helped the player. Now, for the most part, if I see it, I call it and if it's a problem it gives the coach and players something to work on at practice.

YMMV

All,
This 3rd baseman was on a lower level "Rec" team. If this had been a travel team or even an older team I would've ejected him and the coach IMMEDIATELY! HTBT, nobody cheered this kid for making a good play. He stood there proudly because he thought he had "blocked" 3rd base real well like coach told him to. The catcher never threw the ball to third.

Nobody hurt....The 3rd baseman got the worst end of the deal R2 hit him pretty good with his helmet running with his head slightly down. The stunned look on everybody's face was priceless. HTBT; It was borderline hilarious. I wish there was a video because I just couldn't believe what I was seeing.

As far as the obstruction ON THE ORIGINAL PLAY; situation was.....3rd baseman, ball in glove, leg going down, tag going down to runner, runner sliding into base....all at the same time. Runner probably would've been safe if the leg didn't block the base because he would've been under the tag. I've never seen this called obstruction. If a catcher makes this play at home, it is called a great play by the catcher. Why should it be different at any other base?

Let me know if I am wrong. My partner made the call. I would've called the same. I don't believe this is call that can be appealed. Your thoughts are appreciated. (Of course I will give consideration to the source)

Good points, I'll just trust you on the no call on the MC

Why would you even type the sentence having to do with whether it can be appealed. What kind of calls do you think can be appealed?

Based on THIS, the above posters (and I) would have obstruction. You can't "block the sliding runner" AS you take the throw. As described (the first time), this is obstruction. 100% of the time.

The deal here is that you've now changed the situation. The umpire has to judge one thing - did the fielder impede the progress of the runner without possession of the ball. In the original post, heck yes. In this, a little greyer. There's no "all at the same time". At some point - the runner was impeded. This point could have been the moment of contact... but it COULD have been earlier if the runner changed direction, slowed, etc. At THAT point, did the fielder have the ball. That simple.

And without piling on ... I too believe you kicked the handling of the MC (and just because you "lose" the contact because the runner was bigger than you does not mean you didn't create malicious contact.) He should have been gone. Don't be nice just because you feel bad for the kid or think it was not his fault. Regardless of level, time of year, experience, whatever.

Thanks guys......I too now agree I should've ejected the "blocker". I'll know better next, no matter what....it was MC and he NEEDED to be ejected. I was very lucky nothing more happened. I shouldn't have let this player's stupidity make me deviate from the rules of play.

Yes, obstruction if leg is down before he gets the ball. I used to coach and my players were constantly guilty of these types obstruction at ALL bases......not once was it called. However they all quickly learned to quit it when they started playing with steel spikes......

Not true in all codes: in OBR the fielder can block the base if a play is "imminent."

Point taken.

Years ago, when I was coaching in a USSSA tournament, we played a team that employed this tactic. One of our DH/P/C guys (a beast!) was the kind of guy you'd play at fullback if you saw the way he ran as an oversized kid (6'0''/220 at 14). He was chugging toward third on a pitch that bounced, and when he arrived at the bag, he gave a late, hard, but clean slide that sent F5 flying, with his glove, hat and sunglasses flying in different directions. The F5, perhaps 150 pounds, wound up 15 feet from the bag when he was done rolling. He couldn't continue.

Now I didn't urge anybody to do this, but when I asked the kid why he separated him like that, he just replied that he saw the guy blocking the bag and he wanted to make sure he reached the bag despite his blocking it.

The point is: Coaches who teach their infielders to block the bag with their leg should be the ones that get separated. It is absolutely one of the most dangerous practices one can employ on a baseball field, and everyone who teaches it--irrespective of the level of play--should not be around developing ballplayers.

These kinds of coaches are the reason that America is losing its grip on the sport that we invented. The percentage of American-born ballplayers in the professional ranks is dropping every year. It can't afford to have bucket-carrying fanboys posing as baseball coaches feeding this buIIsh!t to our young players. Even many high school coaches fit this profile. But nearly all youth coaches do.

Some players actually deserve to play effective baseball beyond the age of 14. It's too bad there's not a system in place that trains them effectively.

Kheisner:

One thing you must know is....at least 2/3rds(if not more) of the guys giving you the business on this site, have never umpired a game outside their minds or their SP3 players.

Of the 2/3rds I'm talking about, I guessing they can spend so much time on this board, is because they live in their mom's basement, and have plenty of free time and space.


Now that has been said, your points are well taken...but yes the "blocker" should have been tossed. The rest of the blather is just that. Good luck, from someone who got started doing this in 1973(and coached for 25 years inbetween umpiring stints)...you'll come under much more pressure than this board before your umpiring career is over. Stick it out, as for the critics here, tell then to just Stick It! Learn from your mistakes, but remember the guys here, for the most part, not all, are inflating their egos, by tearing you and others down. Those types have never made it past the Middle School/JV level.

I hear what you're saying, but for the most part sir, you're wrong.

Where in the world did that come from? Mr. 10-posts... how long have you been reading here? MOST of the posters here are solid umpires - their (and my) sole reasons for coming here are A) to learn and B) to teach. Yes - we disagree sometimes, but usually we are all better umpires having discussed the disagreements. Further - I don't see ANYONE giving the OP "the business" at all.

This site is not blather free (and now thanks to your contribution, neither is this thread) ... what post, exactly, do you see above that is "blather". All I see are constructive posts discussing the situation. Where do you even see a single individual post that is worthy of being disagreed with?

2/3rds Eh?

TheShadowThinksHeKnows............Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!

JJ, we've been outed!!!!!!! :eek:

They found me too. My cover is blown!

If the fielder has the ball he can block the base in any code. If he does not it is OBS under FED (and NCAA). Under OBR a play would have to be imminent to not be obstruction. I have seen in print (PBUC I believe) that the ball is judged to be inside the grass cutout at the plate (13') to be imminent so at 3b it would likely be the same. Unless there is some malicious action by the fielder no reason to eject. Malicious action by the runner could be also.

So, depending on rule set, make call as you see it. Can't see a coach getting ejected for coaching kid to obstruct. Just enforce the obstruction if you see it.

All,
As a rookie ump I come here for info.....yeah, some of you have sliced me up pretty good...but what the hell, I'm an umpire I get that on a daily basis.:cool:

Main thing is that I improve my game as an umpire & referee......like they say about turtles.....if you are not willing to stick your neck out how do you expect to get ahead.

If you are having fun "chewing me up". Well, then two of us are having a good time!!:p Honestly much of it is good advice and I do appreciate it.

I monitor this site to learn.....like I said earlier, sometimes I have to consider the source. All-in-all, this is a good source. Sometimes I just have to throw out the crap and digest the good stuff.;)

kheisner -

You're not writing this from your basement are you?

Stick around the board and you'll hear a lot of sound advice from some experienced and knowledgeable individuals.

This guy's projecting. This is a classic case!

The Shadow ... what a joke.

(That nickname came to him as he saw a shadow was being cast by the floodlight on the staircase leading down to his mother's basement.)

Being told that you made a mistake is not being sliced up. It's not personal, and it's the only way to improve.

Being told that you're a stoopid turd who has no business on a diamond is being sliced up, but I don't see anyone here saying that to you.

That may apply to one of the "shadowy" posters in this thread ... but not to OP.

He's made far more than 10 posts...you've seen him before under one of his many other pseudonyms.

What tipped you off? :eek:

Not so....just don't stop by often, too busy working or officiating, and not at while at work(on vacation, don't you know?)

I'm wondering if the same can be said for those posting thousands of times in a few short years?:eek:

Believe what you want, afterall, this place is appears to be a free fire zone, so fire away, I'm a big boy and can take it.

Your writing style and choice of targets reveal otherwise.

Still flying?

Interesting...not really into flying, but I'll bite. The writing style while not rare, is used by folks in the broadcast news and advertising copy business. Wasn't aware that pilots also used the same style. Police blotters types do to some extent. Mine though is strickly from my days in radio news.

I no longer work in broadcasting, but do in advertising and I've just never kicked the habit of the style.

Wow!

What a crock of $h!t!!

Good glory!

Whatever, you wouldn't know or be able to handle the truth or facts if it jumped up and bit you in your lazy a$$...

The style is from my broadcasting days in radio...let's make up a few stations, out of thin air:

WRIG-Wausau, Wisconsin
WIOU-WZWZ-Kokomo, Indiana
KGNO-KDCK-Dodge City, Kansas

But why go on?...you just want to pi**, moan, and point fingers....go for it!

KYA, San Francisco, CA
WGVA Geneva, NY
WKBW Buffalo, NY
WSYR, Syracuse NY
WHO Des Moines, Iowa


Now, I'm a former broadcaster, too.


Welcome to the ignore list, Shadowknowsnothing, for at least the third time.