TB @ MIN - "Missed" Tag at 3B in the 10th :eek:
 

Top Plays | TB@MIN: Gardenhire is ejected arguing a play at third - Video | twinsbaseball.com: Multimedia

I absolutely do not understand how anyone can make this call. I am not saying it changes the game (go-ahead already scored), but it really took the life out of the crowd to have to sit for another batter. Here are my thoughts about making that call...

1. If he did miss, and he didn't, how can you possibly make that call when the runner stops.
2. If you are going to make that call, it had better be 100% right. You had better see clear daylight between the runner and glove.

Also, what was Marquez thinking when Gardy came out? Isn't one of the guidelines for meeting a manager that you meet him in the grass so he cannot kick dirt on you? Not many MLB mangers left that would do this, but I think Gardy would be on the list. (This wasn't in the video, but I was at the game)

There's no way he saw daylight from that angle either. You can't defend that. That is an out.

How did he not see the tag? The play was directly in front of him. I don't know how you could possibly defend that call.

Wait an hour...they'll come to his rescue...

Love the bag of seeds hanging out of his pocket.

Wow. Our boys at the top are taking a beating lately. I too can't see how this one could be missed. Wow.

When will the apology and confession come out?

So a bag of seeds and spitting them on the field is considered OK for a professional umpire? I wouldn't even consider that on a HS or Legion field but maybe that's just me. Horrible call.

Note the caption on the video: Gardenhire ejected for arguing **close** play at third.
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The seeds thing is absolutely dumbfounding.

A partner to me last Sunday after putting a seed bag to his mouth in B or C position at least a dozen times: "What do you have for me?"

Me: "Ballplayers started out as boorish, undisciplined slobs. Umpires started out dressed in top hats and coats and ties. We haven't evolved far enough to allow for eating from a bag and spitting out the remains, while we're supposed to be working. And I'm not even talking about moving up, I'm talking about respecting the level of play you're working now."

Seeds being poured in the mouth on a field is unprofessional.

The umpire is so calm during the argument...the ejection was very cordial.

It's Gardenshire! You just expect him to get tossed, no big deal anymore.

As for the call and Marquez's appearance and behavior during the argument: embarrassing, unprofessional, astounding, horrible ... anyone?

So, Gardenhire didn't have a case here? What has happened to MLB umpiring? This continuing sequence of inexplicably missed calls is disturbing. Maybe he was reaching for a snack instead of watching the play.

He did.

But, did you ever hear the story about the little boy that cried "Wolf" all the time.

Nominee for best line of the day?
 

Timing was quick too.

[QUOTE=Ump Rube;684272

[QUOTE] I normally side with the men in blue as thay have been taking a "beating" lately but this call "takes the cake" If he does not get repremanded by MLB I do not know what will.

Let's put in this way.

If any of us made that kind of a call in HS varsity / Legion etc. it might be our last game at that level for a while. My assignor would get a call in a "heartbeat" over a call like that. The conversation would go something along the lines of "How can you send us this guy. He hasn't got a clue. He is not ready for this level etc. etc".

We ALL make mistakes but how can a professional umpire miss that one.

I bet there is some Minor league umpire chomping at the bit to get "their shot" when they see calls like this.

It's time for MLB to do "something" meaning take over umpire development. Improve the pay at the minor league level so that you get more of a draw AND hold umpires more accountable. If you make a call like that I am not saying that should be your last game BUT on the same token you shoud have to earn your way back.

Pete Booth

Par for the course in Marquez's game.

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;684361]The call was missed, but one thing to remember is that anyone of us missed this call inone of our games there is very little that could be done to get us to agree that we missed it. No video proof. So our assignor might get a call, but without proof like this video most good assignors would protect the umpire.

Like I said, he missed it, but I don't think we can equate missing a call like this to our games because of the simple fact that in our games we do the best we can and some times miss them and miss them big, but no one can prove it.

I completely agree. If you listen to coaches on much closer plays in our games, you would think everything was so obvious and we are not in the position this umpire was. Just like you said there are no video evidence and even some high profile games I have worked I cannot think of many games with video to support or go against any call I have ever made. Even at my State Final they did not tape the games. I do not know how our career would be over on a call like this as it would be the usual "He said...He said" type of conversation.

Peace

Wow, talk about kicking it "Old School".

I chew bubble gum (Dubble Bubble, not Super Bubble) and keep a couple of extra pieces in my pocket. Sometimes I blow a bubble. Is that acceptable?

Boy, howdy. As my user name would suggest, I'm fairly new at this craft, but wouldn't most use every clue, such as the runner giving himself up, as a pretty good indication what the call should be? Plus, given his position, how could he not see it? Perhaps, sometimes, in a two man crew, one might be forgiven for being straight-lined on a play between bases, but what the heck?

And to return to the video, he's got seeds sticking out of his pocket? Seeing that garbage, I thought what the heck is that?? It was a bag of seeds? And he continued spitting husks out while Gardenhire was arguing the call?? That is simply execrable. Look, I'm new; I don't presume to pass judgement, but I don't even chew gum out there! He resembles some of the career burn-outs I've seen in my real workplace, sad to say.

Bob James

Why in the world was my comment DELETED? The one about the third baseman tagging the guy that was already out??????????

When a moderator acts that stupidly, he should explain himself.

Slow down cowboy
 

Your post is still part of another thread about the IFR.

I suppose you misplaced it, so You don't have to get so touchy about someone
deleting one the next time.

You mean this one ???...........

How appropriate that your comment is in this thread. Guys are asking how could the call at 3B, that was so obvious, be missed........

Now they are asking the same about your comment....;)

Oh well....I am just not very bright, am I?

[QUOTE=Dakota;684314] What has happened to MLB umpiring? This continuing sequence of inexplicably missed calls is disturbing. QUOTE]

Replay...replay...replay...

Seriously, that cat has been out of the bag for a long time....:rolleyes:

Don't count on there being no tape of it. Just none you know about yet.

Now, if this is you, it is some of your best work.
YouTube - Three Strikes

Great. More of that rubbish now.

Getting back on topic, Part B...
 

Here is something else that I noticed when thinking about it some more (after reading other comments). Where is the call? If you are going to make a no-tag call it had better be immediate and loud.

Looking at the "live" wide-angle, the call is not made until the runner reaches 3B, not when the tag is missed. This makes me think that he either blinked or wanted to screw it up.

Your thoughts?

Unless you think he's related to Tim Donaghy, I'm pretty sure this isn't it.

Making an out call when the tag is applied takes care of this.

Not making an out call when the tag is missed (and the runner has not reached the base) also takes care of this.

I don't think he did, it was merely hyperbole.

I completely disagree with you. He should do nothing. Because I think you only need one signal. He is not safe until he gets back to the base, not in the middle of the running lane where a possible tag might be made. One signal and one call. Because is he going to give multiple tag signals on several tag attempts and then call him out when he is finally out?

Peace

The tag was a "play" and deserves a call. If the tag had been missed, then both the runer and the fielder need to know it so they can then act appropriately.

It wouldn't matter what my stance is on anything, you would oppose it and have a typically smart-@ssed comment to accompany it.

You never disappoint, at least.

Okay. How about Chap Stick? I saw a MLB umpire (Tim Tschida) using Chap Stick during the delay in the game I went to tonight (some guy did a cartwheel as he fell out of the second deck trying to catch a foul ball). Luckily the fans down below him broke his fall.

Since Wednesday is Dollar Hot Dog night, I might try to run one down to Bob Davidson between innings....;)

I take my work seriously. No piece of gum or pocketful of seeds changes that. If it changes your opinion of me in your mind, I couldn't possibly care.

I eat seeds about once a year. I like seeds, but I hate what the salt does -- drying out my lips and mouth.

I disagree. I think he is not safe until he gets the the bag. I am not going to give safe signals all the way up the line until there is a tag.

The runner in this play knew exactly what to do, he ran to the next base.

Peace

No, he's safe until he's out.

Many umpires don't give the safe signal on a tag play away from the base. Most don't feel it's needed -- unless he's out.

You're gonna give a safe sign if he's tagged, Jeff? :D;)

I agree with both sides. Giving the safe signal on a tag attempt between the bases let everybody know that you saw the attempt, including your partners.

Depending on who I'm working with...if I don't see a signal I may or may not trust my partner to have been watching...it also might save a trip out to the field from "Skip" if he sees the safe signal.

Not saying either opinion is right or wrong...but I do think there's a mechanic that asks the base umpire to signal safe if there's no tag on a tag attempt unless the ball comes out or something.

:D

It's either that, or go with Pete's suggestion about MLB taking over umpire development.

Bob is correct, (as usual) even the CCA manual addresses this under general principles.

1. Umpires shall make a signal on all calls with the exception of "ball" and an obvious catch of a fly ball. Signals are to be visible, crisp and clear. Voice calls should be clearly audible.

2. All signals should project decisiveness to the teams, fans and media. Signals should not be slow to the point of appearing uncertain or causing confusion for the participants, fans or media.

I honestly think (my opinion) the umpire in this case had a brain fart and let the runner convince him there was no tag.

Actually we were not talking about a specific rules set. So whatever you do is based on the level and what you feel you want to do. I would not do this in a NCAA game either. I think it is not necessary. Mechanics are ultimately guides anyway. If they were not every umpire would only use the same plate mechanics and they clearly do not.

Peace