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ManInBlue Mon Jun 21, 2010 09:40pm

Balk Off win
 
Two out, runners on 2nd and 3rd. F1 is in the wind up, he steps back onto his free foot, stutter-steps back and forth, then starts to pitch. I called the balk. The D-coach went off. He said it wasn't like the stretch, where you have to have one continuous motion. He has 3 seconds to pause when pitching from the wind up. He then said he's been doing this $h!t his whole life.

Well, I didn't balk him for "pausing" I balked him for taking 2 or three steps with his free foot. Actually he balked on the previous pitch by turning his shoulders to 1B in the set position after bringing his hands together (I'm not sure why b/c there wasn't a runner there). I let that one slide. I really didn't want to have the winning run score on a balk.

That was definitely a new one for me though. I missed the 3 second rule when I read the rules the last time, and the time before that...

Rich Ives Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInBlue (Post 682745)
Actually he balked on the previous pitch by turning his shoulders to 1B in the set position after bringing his hands together (I'm not sure why b/c there wasn't a runner there). I let that one slide. ...

Balk in FED. Probably not in OBR.

David B Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInBlue (Post 682745)
Two out, runners on 2nd and 3rd. F1 is in the wind up, he steps back onto his free foot, stutter-steps back and forth, then starts to pitch. I called the balk. The D-coach went off. He said it wasn't like the stretch, where you have to have one continuous motion. He has 3 seconds to pause when pitching from the wind up. He then said he's been doing this $h!t his whole life.

Well, I didn't balk him for "pausing" I balked him for taking 2 or three steps with his free foot. Actually he balked on the previous pitch by turning his shoulders to 1B in the set position after bringing his hands together (I'm not sure why b/c there wasn't a runner there). I let that one slide. I really didn't want to have the winning run score on a balk.

That was definitely a new one for me though. I missed the 3 second rule when I read the rules the last time, and the time before that...

Well shame on the umpires who have let him do this without calling it.
I'm guessing this is HS ball.

Thanks
David

mbyron Tue Jun 22, 2010 06:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 682758)
Balk in FED. Probably not in OBR.

Although I agree that this might be ignored in MLB, I think it's an illegal pitch or balk under OBR, too. I don't think I'd allow it in amateur ball.

8.01(a): "... He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot."

I've seen guys rock without stepping, and that's legal. But as described in the OP, I've got a balk here.

bob jenkins Tue Jun 22, 2010 07:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 682758)
Balk in FED. Probably not in OBR.

Balk in OBR for feinting to an unoccupied base (I'm assuming the move was such that it would have been called a balk if there had been R1).

bob jenkins Tue Jun 22, 2010 07:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 682774)
Although I agree that this might be ignored in MLB, I think it's an illegal pitch or balk under OBR, too. I don't think I'd allow it in amateur ball.

8.01(a): "... He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot."

I've seen guys rock without stepping, and that's legal. But as described in the OP, I've got a balk here.

I can see it not being a balk. F1 is allowed two "pumps" and *maybe* that's what was happening.

Rich Ives Tue Jun 22, 2010 09:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 682789)
Balk in OBR for feinting to an unoccupied base (I'm assuming the move was such that it would have been called a balk if there had been R1).

Why would you judge it a feint if there's no one at the base? There's no one to fake out.

bob jenkins Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 682804)
Why would you judge it a feint if there's no one at the base? There's no one to fake out.

He made a move to the base (assumption) and didn't throw the ball -- that's the definition of a feint. Whether there's anyone to "fake out" is immaterial.

JR12 Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 682790)
I can see it not being a balk. F1 is allowed two "pumps" and *maybe* that's what was happening.

Doesnt the pumps, refer to his hands and arms?

bob jenkins Tue Jun 22, 2010 01:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR12 (Post 682833)
Doesnt the pumps, refer to his hands and arms?

Yes. :confused:

mbyron Tue Jun 22, 2010 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 682847)
Yes. :confused:

He asked that because the OP seems to be about multiple steps before the pitch, and you commented that it wasn't a balk because F1 was just "pumping."

Frankly, I too wondered where you were going with that.

bob jenkins Tue Jun 22, 2010 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 682853)
He asked that because the OP seems to be about multiple steps before the pitch, and you commented that it wasn't a balk because F1 was just "pumping."

Frankly, I too wondered where you were going with that.

Ah --

A pump includes (or can include) "rocking back and forth" from free foot to pivot foot. If that was the extent of the "stutter steps back and forth" (and I'm not saying it was -- only that I can envision it), then I probably don't have a balk.

mbyron Tue Jun 22, 2010 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 682858)
Ah --

A pump includes (or can include) "rocking back and forth" from free foot to pivot foot. If that was the extent of the "stutter steps back and forth" (and I'm not saying it was -- only that I can envision it), then I probably don't have a balk.

Gotcha. I agree. I've even seen it:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_bQZ61uIhPE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_bQZ61uIhPE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Rich Ives Tue Jun 22, 2010 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 682830)
He made a move to the base (assumption) and didn't throw the ball -- that's the definition of a feint. Whether there's anyone to "fake out" is immaterial.



Why assume?

bob jenkins Tue Jun 22, 2010 05:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 682892)
Why assume?

Because it just follows what I had in the previous post -- IF the "shoulder turn" was such that it would be a balk with R1, then it's a balk without R1. I get that from the fact that the OP indicated that he passed on the balk.


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