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-   -   Collision at Home Plate (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/58423-collision-home-plate.html)

Spence Wed Jun 16, 2010 06:57pm

Collision at Home Plate
 
I'm not an umpire so I'm not clear on the requirements. Its my layman's understanding that the runner must try to avoid contact.

WYMT Sports Page

On the right hand side you will see a video section. Click on the "June 15th - 11" to see the collision at home.

What would you do with the runner?

Ump29 Wed Jun 16, 2010 07:21pm

I can only comment on rules for Canada (modified OBR) but I would have runner out and ejected.

jicecone Wed Jun 16, 2010 07:32pm

A 1 sec collision?

Catcher on knees and moves into runner, not a smart move son.

MrUmpire Wed Jun 16, 2010 07:40pm

After watching it by stopping and starting the action throughout the play, it appears the runner is well to the right of the foul line with a clear path to the plate and the catcher is set up to the left of the foul line. The catcher leans in at the last moment and the contact is with the glove, arm and shoulder of the catcher.

No MC, no reason to eject.

edited to correct an error brought on by a huge brain freeze or stroke or severe deficiency of one mineral or another.

rbmartin Wed Jun 16, 2010 08:50pm

My call? Out. Play on!

Welpe Wed Jun 16, 2010 08:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 682241)

I score the run.

I have him out on the tag. :)

DG Wed Jun 16, 2010 09:28pm

Not MC in my view.

MrUmpire Thu Jun 17, 2010 01:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 682251)
I have him out on the tag. :)

You are absolutely correct. A major brain freeze here.

I was focused so intently on whether or not there was MC, I just ignored the tag. My regrets....

mbyron Thu Jun 17, 2010 06:37am

I'm with the growing consensus: runner is out on the tag. No MC, as he was running wide, and F2 moved into his path to tag him.

GoodwillRef Thu Jun 17, 2010 08:37am

The catcher moved into the runner, the catcher was not there, with the ball, waiting to tag the runner. This is nothing more than an out.

Welpe Thu Jun 17, 2010 08:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 682278)
You are absolutely correct. A major brain freeze here.

I was focused so intently on whether or not there was MC, I just ignored the tag. My regrets....

No worries, I figured as much. We agree on the major point, no MC.

jdmara Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:06am

I have a dissenting opinion on this play. Are you calling this a legal slide by the offensive player? If appears he makes shoulder to chest/shoulder contact with the catcher! In my opinion this is not a legal slide and, therefore, I have MC.

-Josh

UmpJM Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 682327)
I have a dissenting opinion on this play. Are you calling this a legal slide by the offensive player? If appears he makes shoulder to chest/shoulder contact with the catcher! In my opinion this is not a legal slide and, therefore, I have MC.

-Josh

Josh,

What do you think is illegal about the slide?

JM

MD Longhorn Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:20am

jd - show us the rule that requires this runner to legally slide and how that applies to this particular situation.

Agree with the masses. For there to be MC, there must be something M. I'm not sure runner could have done anything else with F2 moving into his path.

UmpJM Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 682327)
I have a dissenting opinion on this play. Are you calling this a legal slide by the offensive player? If appears he makes shoulder to chest/shoulder contact with the catcher! In my opinion this is not a legal slide and, therefore, I have MC.

-Josh

Josh,

What do you think is illegal about the slide?

An illegal slide is not, per se, malicious contact.

JM

bob jenkins Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 682327)
I have a dissenting opinion on this play. Are you calling this a legal slide by the offensive player? If appears he makes shoulder to chest/shoulder contact with the catcher! In my opinion this is not a legal slide and, therefore, I have MC.

-Josh

Even if it's not a legal slide (and I haven't seen the play), that does NOT mean it's malicious contact. Those are two separate items and you can have either without the other (although I concede a legal slide with MC would be an unusual occurrence).

jdmara Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 682333)
Josh,

What do you think is illegal about the slide?

An illegal slide is not, per se, malicious contact.

JM

I agree that an illegal slide is not necessary malicious contact, I do agree with that statement. It's not an automatic.

He is what I see on this play. Catcher who is on one knee receives the ball prior to the arrival of the runner at home plate. The runner initiates contact with a leading shoulder into the upper chest/shoulder/head region of the catcher. It must be noted that the catchers (left) knee is on the 3rd baseline.

In Iowa, it has been a huge emphasis over the years to cut out malicious contact and penalize it justly. The umpires have been instructed, as well as the coaches, that if there is an imminent out the runner has a few options and going through someone is not one of them.

Logical or not, this is how I look at this play. If the runner were to slide feet first, the slide would be illegal if the runner's raised leg is higher than the fielder's knee when the fielder is in a standing position (2-32-2b). In the OP, the runner did "slide", I think we can all agree on that. IMO, the contact was clearly made above the line higher than the fielder's knee when the fielder is in a standing position. That makes me question the intent of the running and the legality of the slide. Seeing that the runner led with his shoulder I have malicious contact. I wouldn't think twice about it.

-Josh

MD Longhorn Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:05am

I don't. Agree that is. He's clearly trying to dive around the catcher and the catcher moves into his path. Pause it (admittedly difficult on this interface)... you'll see that catcher is inside WITHOUT the ball when runner, on the outside initiates the diving part of the play. He's already on his way down when catcher catches the ball. Not sure how we could expect an airborne player who was diving into an unoccupied space to somehow change direction when the space becomes occupied.

txump81 Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:26pm

It's easy to analyze after the fact when you can pause and rerun in slo-mo. This gets really close to becoming an announcer.

Just kidding. At least we know the rules...

My very first thought was $-!+ happens. It looked to me like the collision wasn't that bad and maybe the catcher was faking. It looked like the runner tried to avoid contact. After watching it multiple times, I can see the catcher lunging into it ever so slightly. My ruling---Play on. Runner is out on tag.

BK47 Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:53pm

must agree with the masses, no MC, tag your out.

one question, is it legal in College to leap like that?

mbyron Thu Jun 17, 2010 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK47 (Post 682376)
must agree with the masses, no MC, tag your out.

one question, is it legal in College to leap like that?

It's legal at every level to leap. You just can't leap over a fielder, unless he's lying on the ground.

'Over' means over, not nearby.

bob jenkins Thu Jun 17, 2010 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK47 (Post 682376)
must agree with the masses, no MC, tag your out.

one question, is it legal in College to leap like that?

NCAA does not have the prohibition on leaping, hurdling, diving, etc. that FED has.

REFANDUMP Thu Jun 17, 2010 02:54pm

The catcher is out in front of the batters box area. The runner is attempting to get down at such a time that he can reasonably make the play. The contact is not malicious or flagrant. All I have is an out.

billken Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:56pm

Just baseball in that video...no MC.

DG Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:40pm

I don't see anything illegal about this head first "dive" to the plate. It's not a head first slide, that is different look entirely. But nothing illegal about it. Catcher moved into his path at the last moment.


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