Lightning/Thunder Delay

[tjones1]

I realize most associations and organizations use the 30/30 rule when it comes to lightning/thunder.

Somehow, I never really thought about it until last week, but...

Do any of you write down the time on your line-up card when a lightning/thunder delay occurs?

I know the time could change a lot while a storm passing through.

[MD Longhorn]

In most of the places I umpire, there is some sort of field administration. For liability purposes, I'm very reluctant to be the one making the decision to keep playing if the reason for quitting was lightning. Field admin tells us when to go back. I think the 30-minute rule is faulty, by the way. Fields should have lightning meters to measure how far things are away.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

In most of the places I umpire, there is some sort of field administration. For liability purposes, I'm very reluctant to be the one making the decision to keep playing if the reason for quitting was lightning. Field admin tells us when to go back. I think the 30-minute rule is faulty, by the way. Fields should have lightning meters to measure how far things are away.

The 30 Minute rule is from NOAA. What do you know that they don't?

Do you want the $250 meter or the $20,000 system?

We have the $250 meter (set at 8-20 miles). We pause to look if we get an alarm and wait 30 minutes if we see a flash. The terrain here pushes storms around us a lot.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I realize most associations and organizations use the 30/30 rule when it comes to lightning/thunder.

Somehow, I never really thought about it until last week, but...

Do any of you write down the time on your line-up card when a lightning/thunder delay occurs?

I know the time could change a lot while a storm passing through.

Absolutely I write the time I see lightning and then every time (within reason) that I see lightning after that. I don't write it directly on the line-up card though, I write it on my little reusable card in my "folder" under "situations". I wait 30 minutes from the last strike at minimum.

-Josh

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The 30 Minute rule is from NOAA. What do you know that they don't?

Do you want the $250 meter or the $20,000 system?

We have the $250 meter (set at 8-20 miles). We pause to look if we get an alarm and wait 30 minutes if we see a flash. The terrain here pushes storms around us a lot.

Who is NOAA? No ... I'm no expert - but I do think that a lot of umpires / referees / field admin / whatever use the 30 minute rule as a crutch to avoid getting a meter, and assume that it's safe if they haven't seen something in 30 minutes. A lot of the time, the meter sees things that we don't. A LOT safer with a meter.

[rookieblue]

Who is NOAA?

In the event the question in genuine, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - the water and weather geeks! Part of the Department of Commerce. Hey, they wear military-style uniforms and have their own fleet! Kewl!

NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

I haven't written the time down in the past, but I sure as heck intend to in the future. Thanks for a simple and helpful suggestion.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rookieblue

In the event the question in genuine, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - the water and weather geeks! Part of the Department of Commerce. Hey, they wear military-style uniforms and have their own fleet! Kewl!

NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

I haven't written the time down in the past, but I sure as heck intend to in the future. Thanks for a simple and helpful suggestion.

I guess I had sports on the brain and was trying to figure out a sports org with that abbreviation. Just curious ... did NOAA really say something about when sports events should continue after lightning is seen? Seems odd, but OK.

I doubt, however, that they have said people should go by 30-minutes and not use a lightning meter - which is where my beef with the "30-minute rule" comes from.

[Altor]

NWS Lightning Safety Overview

Summary: Lightning is dangerous. With common sense, you can greatly increase your safety and the safety of those you are with. At the first clap of thunder, go to a large building or fully enclosed vehicle and wait 30 minutes after the last clap of thunder before you to go back outside.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Altor

NWS Lightning Safety Overview

This exact logic killed 2 kids and put about 25 in the hospital during a junior high school football practice. Get a friggin meter folks.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This exact logic killed 2 kids and put about 25 in the hospital during a junior high school football practice. Get a friggin meter folks.

Where? When?

Refrence article?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Where? When?

Refrence article?

Crap, now you're going to make me dig. This was in Dallas about 3 years ago. Will get back to you with the article.

I don't know for sure if this was it or not ... seems like the date is longer ago than my memory, and I'm sure that there were 2 deaths in the one I remember. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps...ng-death_x.htm

When the one I remember happened, it was discussed at meetings afterward several times.

[Altor]

And there was no warning? There was no thunder at all before the one that struck at practice?

Note that NOAA doesn't give any recommendation about "flash to bang" counting techniques.

When to Seek Safe Shelter: Lightning can strike as far as 10 miles from the area where it is raining. That's about the distance you can hear thunder. If you can hear thunder, you are within striking distance. Seek safe shelter immediately.

[PeteBooth]

So what do you do when you umpire on fields that have NO lightening meters?

When you see lightening do you call the Game right then and there because there is no equipment available?

The 30/30 rule is an NFHS rule.

The "clock starts" whenever we see lightening or hear a bolt of thunder. If "another one strikes" clock starts over.

It's like this.

One of the officials hears thunder or sees lightening. We call TIME and vacate the premises.

let's say we have waited 25 minutes and THEN we see another bolt of lightening. The 30 minute clock starts over again.

IMO, the 30/30 is as good as any UNLESS as you say the field has adequate equipment, but in this "economic climate" with schools already cutting some sports who has the money to buy expensive equipment.

Pete Booth

[LakeErieUmp]

I'm with Pete Booth - calling a game is better than calling a paramedic.

[johnnyg08]

When in doubt, I clear the field. No game is worth injuries, I am not a meteorologist, therefore I use the Federation guidelines to the letter. I don't care what anybody else says. If I'm umpiring on the field, it's a strict 30 minutes from the last strike period. If they want to go back out, they're doing it one man and with me going on the record saying that I dont' think we should resume play. I'm not messing around. Everybody wants to play until somebody dies, then "the umpires should've never sent them back on the field." Pretty easy to prove negligence if there's a Federation guideline in place.