Balk plus Ball
 

Impossible I thought, when answering a question about a pitch delivered when a balk was called. I was right about that but I had some free time and was perusing the OBR rule book I got from the PONY guys and there it says in 8.02 PENALTY (a)(2)-(6): (d):"..............automatic ball and, if there are any runners on base, a balk".
Very rare because it penalizes a doctored ball. But learn something new every time you sit on the john. Maybe the pre season talk about a balk for going to the mouth came from misreading this which exempts 8.01(a)(1) from this penalty.
Anybody ever called this?

Does it mean "ball" w/ no runners on base, and "balk" with runners on base?

I don't think you can have both. Certainly I may learn something here. Too late to look anything up for me tonight.

It's a poorly written sentence, not a freak rule. This has been pointed out before. Sometimes you have to understand the game.

It should read "If no runners are on base it's an automatic ball, and if there are runners on base it is a balk." It is a mistake in the new rule. The old rule called for a warning, a ball, and announcement. Now the rule is automatic ejection and suspension. It is only a ball or balk if the offense elects not to take the result of the play. If they do take the play, play on McDuff but the pitcher still gets tossed.

That just rephrases the mistake of apparently conjoining the penalties.

Better: If no runners are on base it's an automatic ball; with runners on base it is a balk.

Shall we turn this into a "let's rewrite OBR" thread? :D

How? It separates them just fine. If no runners...If runners. Nothing confusing about my wording. The current wording does not make a ball call conditional upon having no runners.

Why? Because you wrote it? It just restates exactly what I wrote.

Why not? Then we can put an end to asinine threads like this one.

Seriously? You can't tell the difference between a sentence with a conjunction and one without? You're dumber even than your politics suggests. :rolleyes:

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a bingo..........:D

Could you give me a link to where this has previously been pointed out before. I could believe that they really wanted to punish doctoring so a ball and a balk is believable. Did they say that they screwed up the rewrite of the rule?

Post the rewritten rule.

Then you need to change your name from umpjim to coachjim.

From MLB.com:

8.02 PENALTY (d) If the manager of the team at bat does not elect to accept the play, the umpire-in-chief shall call an automatic ball and, if there are any runners on base, a balk.

Find it hard to believe they would let this wording get through in a rewrite and not mean it.

Is there anyone on the site whom you'd believe? Evans points out that there are hundreds of errors in OBR.

1. What makes you think this was subject to a rewrite?

2. This is why you should be coachjim and not umpjim. You haven't a clue.

Somebody in this thread said it was a rewrite.

My old LLGB has the old wording which usually matches OBR and it is different. I don't have any older OBR books to compare.

So, I believe it is a rewrite and not one of the errors we all know about in the rules.

It might be a new error but you haven't given me any proof of that. I believe a lot of what is posted here. If you can give me a cite or the previous discussion of this particular error I would appreciate it. I am aware of the errors that exist in OBR.

After further research of my 2008 BRD I find that at least Mr. Childress in that edition took the current wording at its face value and I quote from section 362 (page 241): "(CHANGES 2007) Penalty: ball and balk with runners". italics his.

So, apparently this was changed in 2007 and they might have meant it.

Edited to add this tidbit from the preseason:

"March 16th, 2010 | 6:28 PM Marlins bench coach Carlos Tosca thinks it’s a good rule. He just wished he would have known about it a little sooner.
Tuesday against the Braves in Lake Buena Vista, first base umpire Joe West cited Josh Johnson for two balks. A ball was added to the count on both occasions. Apparently, Major League Baseball implemented some rule changes and didn’t bother to inform the Marlins."

I believe Joe missapllied the penalty to the hand to mouth thing.

"Is there anyone on this site whom you would believe?"

Answer: Most anyone but there are two who I'd have to do some checking on before believing them.

Keep digging coach, the hole is getting deeper.:rolleyes:

"Keep digging coach, the hole is getting deeper."

I will but it may take some time since I don't think this rarely used penalty, my or your interp, needs that much attention.

Now I have to put the 2010 BRD on my FD gift list. And maybe the latest MLBUM.

My wife is telling me I'm a "garrapata".