"We're not talking about balls and strikes anymore!'
 

A couple of nights ago, we had a PU who seemed to have a very small strike zone in a high school age game. After I told my pitcher to get the ball down where it was going to be called a strike, the PU ripped of his mask and yelled, "That's enough. We are not talking about balls and strikes anymore!" I sat quietly from that point on. A couple of innings later, as I was going to the third base coaching box, he stopped me to explain where my pitcher was missing. I listened and went on. He seemed to be offended that I didn't stick around to discuss. If he is going to command me not to talk about balls and strikes, I have no problem with it. I just don't want to discuss them later in the game when he feels like it is time to talk.

I agree. Good for you for having the good sense to listen politely and then move on. Some might interpret his willingness to open a dialog with you after earlier warning you to drop the discussion as baiting. Fortunately you didn't take the bait.

You should be aware that this is not likely your umpire's first game ever. We ALL know who you're really talking to here.

And recognize that there are 2 sides to every story, and your PU may have been listening to a lot of jabber from a fan sitting close enough that he thought it was one of your coaches.

However - if events unfolded exactly as you said (with no prior Ball-Strike grumbling from you, etc), I think your umpire was probably out of line (probably twice). It's possible that he realized that when he approached YOU to talk about it (Most umpires would never ever do this).

Personally I love to hear coaches tell their pitchers and batters to adjust. The "he's been calling it all day," "Bring it down, adjust to what he's calling" are the right comments. Coach isn't complaining, he's teaching his kids to go with what's called and play the game there. It shows they're paying attention and it teaches the kids not to blame the ump for not "getting the call."

I had a team twice one Saturday several weeks ago and in the 2nd game I heard the coach say to his batter "He's been calling it all day. Swing the bat." It told me that he didn't have an issue with the zone, and that the kids should have picked up on what was a strike, and THEY need to do their job at the plate.

Your PU was way out of line (unless he had been hearing it all day and thought it was a coach - as mentioned in another post)

I concur with ManInBlue.

The coach WAS talking to his player, not the umpire.

If he says something like, "Keep it there, Jimmy. That was ABSOLUTELY a strike!", THEN he's talking to the umpire.

As described, it sounds like you had a complete redass for an umpire and you were wise to "tread lightly". In my experience, that's really all you can do in that situation. If it's horrible, follow-up with the assignor afterwards.

Or maybe he just had a bad moment and tried to make up for it later by explaining during an inning change.

JM

Exactly. In the OP, coach was telling his pitcher to change; in JM's example, coach was telling the umpire to change. BIG difference.

"Keep it there Jimmy", "That ABSOLUTELY was a strike". I've heard those pharses before too along with "Throw it there again, next time you'll get it" but I often hear that from the players in the field too. I wonder to myself sometimes if when a player says things like that if he is trying to get inside the batters head. Saying stuff like that might make the batter think he needs to swing at the next pitch which works out for the Defense.

Just a thought.

Either way, those are good points to remember. Is the coach talking to his team or is he talking to me?

My partner the other night used this line. The coach kept arguing and he kept using the phrase, it didn't work. The worst part is the umpire let the coach keep going. I was about to step in and shut the coach up but decided to let my partner deal with the situation he created. I was a bad partner but he has to learn where he draws the line.

-Josh

No you weren't... bad that is. You would have been bad if you'd stepped in.

One thing I learned early on - don't tell someone what's going to happen in the future unless you're going to make it happen. ("Coach, one more word and you're gone.") Don't tell someone "That's enough" unless it IS enough, and any more is too much. Try not to make threats - but if you do, carry them through.

Had a partner a long time ago that used this line, "We're not talking about balls and strikes anymore," quite often. Once in a game I was evaluating, he shouted it at a coach, and on the very next pitch, "That's a ball ... OUTside!" (He liked to do this too - annoying really). Old man sitting next to me shouts out, "I thought we weren't talking about balls and strikes anymore!!!!"

Couldn't help but chuckle.

I agree whole-heartedly.

And I had a similar thing the other day: Closer comes in and is questioning why I didn't give him a high one. Second baseman says, "He hasn't called that up there all day ... just pitch!"

Sometimes a self-policed game goes extremely smoothly. I believe that a good umpire shouldn't get in the way of that.

Agreed.

IMO, a major problem with today's player.

When I played we as players would say to the next batter

"He's got a good hook today" AND
The umpire is calling them "low / high or whatever.

In other words it was up to us to adjust to what the umpire was calling. As a player /coach you want consistency and if the umpiring is calling them low ALL game long then you adjust because it's low for EVERYBODY.

I am pretty certain that we all called batter's out on 3 strikes that were in the SAME place BUT the batter thought they were out of the strike zone.

Instead of adjusting, they are stubborn and think that because THEY thought they were outside/inside then the umpire should oblige.

Pete Booth

Great Thread
 

As a coach I've tried to beat into my player's head that there are a million things (give or take 500K or so) that are going on during a game, of which they can control maybe 5. Rather than get hacked off at something an umpire is/isn't supposedly doing why don't they just concentrate on what they are doing (like recognizing where strikes are being called and adjusting if necessary)?

Depends how he said it. He could have meant you were missing the same pitch all day.

You got to love coaches that actually get it when it comes to the game.

In one of my first years, I got called in to do a college playoff game when one of the umpires had car trouble and couldn't get in. I get the plate and pitcher for the visiting team had a great cut fastball that he was starting inside and was cutting back over the inside corner. The hitters just kept watching it and I kept calling it a strike. The players were getting agitated by it, shaking heads, mumbling to themselves, a couple showing a bit of displeasure about the calls. Fifth inning I ring up, I think it was the seventh, called third strike on that pitch I hear "God dammit" from the 3rd base coaching box and here come the head coach walking towards home. I stand, take off my mask thinking "Alright here it comes." and then he stops and yells over at his team. "He's been calling that pitch all damn day, start swinging at it!!"

Loved it, just smiled to myself and went back to work.