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-   -   Natural movement? 8.01a (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/58336-natural-movement-8-01a.html)

johnnyg08 Tue Jun 08, 2010 07:39pm

Natural movement? 8.01a
 
Rule 8.01a states:

From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration.

What determines "natural" movement versus "unnatural" movement?

I've heard umpires say "if he does it every time" he's legal.

What are your thoughts?

Thank you.

UmpJM Tue Jun 08, 2010 07:46pm

johnny,

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 680818)
Rule 8.01a states:

From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration.

What determines "natural" movement versus "unnatural" movement?

The umpire does.

Quote:

I've heard umpires say "if he does it every time" he's legal.
Don't pay any attention to them; they don't know what they're talking about.

Quote:

What are your thoughts?
My thought is that a lot of people seem to misinterpret "natural" to mean "usual". I don't believe that is what it means at all.

I think it means the pitcher moves in a way that you "naturally" believe he is beginning his delivery.

Quote:

Thank you.
You're welcome.

JM

jicecone Tue Jun 08, 2010 09:21pm

"I've heard umpires say "if he does it every time" he's legal"

So if a pitcher were to pump one time once, and the second time twice would that be a balk. Not according to the rules.

I am not sure what "natural movement" really means either but, once the pitcher begins to deliver the ball, (TOP) to the batter, he has to complete the pitch.

Maybe one of our historians, MB or Jenkins no more about the meaning.

SanDiegoSteve Tue Jun 08, 2010 09:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 680818)
Rule 8.01a states:

From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration.

Rule 8.01(a) is in reference to the Windup position. The only legal movement to avoid having to pitch the ball is for the pitcher to step backward off the rubber with his pivot foot. Any other movement is considered to be associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter. This is why runners take off for the next base when they see the pitcher move anything but his pivot foot. Sometimes pitchers try to get away with pumping their arms then stepping back a split second later, which is a balk.

UmpJM Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 680851)
Rule 8.01(a) is in reference to the Windup position. The only legal movement to avoid having to pitch the ball is for the pitcher to step backward off the rubber with his pivot foot. Any other movement is considered to be associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter. This is why runners take off for the next base when they see the pitcher move anything but his pivot foot. Sometimes pitchers try to get away with pumping their arms then stepping back a split second later, which is a balk.

Steve,

That is not quite right.

Under OBR rules, the pitcher may also make a pick-off throw from the windup - as long as it is preceded by a "direct step".

JM

SanDiegoSteve Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 680854)
Steve,

That is not quite right.

Under OBR rules, the pitcher may also make a pick-off throw from the windup - as long as it is preceded by a "direct step".

JM

You are indeed right. I forgot about that one! But everything else, dammit!:D

bob jenkins Wed Jun 09, 2010 08:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jicecone (Post 680838)
"I've heard umpires say "if he does it every time" he's legal"

So if a pitcher were to pump one time once, and the second time twice would that be a balk. Not according to the rules.

I am not sure what "natural movement" really means either but, once the pitcher begins to deliver the ball, (TOP) to the batter, he has to complete the pitch.

Maybe one of our historians, MB or Jenkins no more about the meaning.

I think it means "excluding such acts as adjusting the hat, wiping sweat, shooing away bugs, shaking off a sign, wiping up or down to adjust the sign, joining the hands to adjust the ball, etc."

mbyron Wed Jun 09, 2010 08:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 680928)
i think it means "excluding such acts as adjusting the hat, wiping sweat, shooing away bugs, shaking off a sign, wiping up or down to adjust the sign, joining the hands to adjust the ball, etc."

+1


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