Did Joe West overrule Paul Schrieber Friday?
 

It happened at the Washington/Cincinnati game last Friday, June 4. From Bill Ladson of MLB.com:

"The Nationals had just scored their fourth run of the game, as Willie Harris hit a sacrifice fly to drive in Roger Bernadina. At the same time, Ian Desmond tried to advance to third base and was ruled safe by third-base umpire Paul Schrieber.
Reds manager Dusty Baker came out of the dugout to argue that Desmond's foot was off the bag. Before Baker could say anything, first-base umpire Joe West told Baker that the umpires were going to talk it over.
"It looked like [Desmond] came off the bag to me," Baker said. "[Reds third baseman] Scottie [Rolen] is one of the best there is, and that's what I saw. Then they conferred, evidently somebody on the other side must have had a better vantage point than the third-base umpire did."
About 30 seconds later, West ruled that Desmond was out at third.
Desmond then tossed his helmet and West immediately ejected him from the game." (emphasis added.)

AP also reported that West, umping at first, overruled the third base umpire's call. I tried to tell my brothers that no ump, not even a crew chief, can overrule another umpire's call, and got laughed at for not accepting the facts. That it was Joe West, and that after the umpire conference he was the one who signaled the out, lent credibility to their claim. I have looked in vain on the internet for a definitive answer, but Schrieber looked to be in a good position to see the play.

Can anyone say for sure whether Schrieber asked for help or did West unilaterally inject himself into the call? And did Schrieber change his call after getting help from his fellow umps or did West actually overrule the call on his own?

Here's the play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CIN@WSH: Desmond is ejected after throwing his helmet - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

And here's a video starting at the end of the umpire meeting. I see only West talking and pointing, then the conference breaks up and West signals the out. Desmond tosses his helmet and West tosses him. Riggleman confers with West then appears to be seeking out Schrieber when the video ends.

VIDEO: Umpire Joe West Ejects Ian Desmond, Creates Yet Another Donnybrook - From Our Editors - SBNation.com

Already a thread on this topic.

http://forum.officiating.com/basebal...hird-base.html

mbyron,

Not the same play.

JM

I'm sure Baker asked for the crew to get together and ask what each saw...it was the right call, they got it right, they didn't have to place any runners...West, the crew chief reverses the call of safe. Must be an MLB thing where the crew chief makes the call on a play like that or something.

Don't believe this is a MLB thing. Otherwise, Jim Joyce's crew chief would have made an overrule.

I agree with you but Joyce didn't ask for help though right? Maybe Paul did.

Oops. Right, but I've seen that video somewhere around here...

I thought you were umpires. You don't know how this works?

9.04(c) - The crew chief is the decider.

That's not an answer. Different decisions were not made by different umpires on the same call. Since the premise of 9.04(c) wasn't met, the rest of it is irrelevant.

West has no authority to overturn or seek to overturn another umpire's call. It's not like this call had two umpires with overlapping jurisdiction. 9.02(c) is on point -- if that umpire decides to seek input from other umpires, it's still his decision whether to overturn his own call.

I'm thinking that's what actually happens, BTW. Schrieber was OK with the reversal and West merely announced it, allowing all the heat to fall on him, which, of course, it did.

I wouldn't be surprised if they got together in response to the Joyce fiasco but since it was Joe West, everyone got their panties in a bunch about it.

This post ties for the dumbest post ever made on the internet.

T

AFAIK, in MLB, either the calling umpire or the crew chief can announce the reversal (maybe depending on the nature of it, the crew preferences, the tenure of the umpire involved, etc).

I do think this call shouldn't have been reversed.

Well let's see- the crew gets together to review a call. Someone says "out" (foul - whatever); someone says "safe" (HR - whatever); someone has to decide.


And that doesn't fit the rule how?

You're giving New York education a bad name. Read the rule again.

The rule does NOT say, "whenever umpires disagree about anything, the crew chief gets to make a call."

That is when 2 make the call at the same time during the play. Not, on a crew gathering. When that occurs, it is the calling umpire's responsibility to make the call and announce it (which is common practice since he is the one whose call it was). I'm sure the UIC is allowed to announce it in MLB which does many things inappropriately.

I wonder if it is b/c it was Joe West. He decided to take the heat for the call directly since he is the only one who could see it based on the rotation of the play. His angle or U2's angle were the only 2 to tell the foot came off.

The funny thing about the play is the EJ. The runner knew he came off the base based on how he scrambled back. He knew it was the correct call. I think it should have been overturned b/c it wasn't a judgment call. It was a call that U3 couldn't see from his angle.