Question From a Fan Re Hit By Pitch

[Fan10]

Saw something happen today in an MLB game that raised a question in my mind:

Braves/Phillies: With a runner at first base, a Phillies batter may or may not have gotten grazed by a pitch. The ball got away to the screen, and the runner at 1st went to 2nd while the home plate ump told the batter to go to first on the hit by pitch. After Bobby Cox questioned the call, all four umpires gathered, and it was determined that it did not hit him. The batter was brought back to home plate to continue the at bat.

Meanwhile, the runner stayed at 2B. Now, ultimately, he deserved 2B because the ball got by the catcher to the screen, and the Braves had no play on him. But, I got to thinking about something: When the umpire called the hit by pitch, did he not create a dead ball? In other words, would this not be similar to the old inadvertent whistle in football where he killed the ball by calling the hit by pitch?

[johnnyg08]

More information...was it a check swing? In terms of getting the play right. If the ball hit him or not the runner would've achieved 2B. If they left him there, they got the play right.

[Fan10]

No. He made no effort to swing at it. As the pitch got past the catcher, the plate umpire raised his hands and pointed to 1B (just like you always see umpires do on a hit by pitch). When Cox questioned it, the plate ump called the other three guys in. After they talked, they decided to bring the batter back and left the runner at 2B.

[Rich Ives]

If you undo the HBP you undo the dead ball. So the runner gets 2B on the WP.

[MrUmpire]

I don't see the problem, even the announcers got it right. No HBP, R1 advances on the wild pitch, Charlie M gets a runner at second and still finds a way to get ejected. What a marooon.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I don't see the problem, even the announcers got it right. No HBP, R1 advances on the wild pitch, Charlie M gets a runner at second and still finds a way to get ejected. What a marooon.

Houston Pitcher Roy Oswald got ejected in the 3rd inning yesterday for allegedly arguing balls and strikes (he said he was just mad at himself and not talking to the ump). His team went on to lose 14-4........

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

If you undo the HBP you undo the dead ball. So the runner gets 2B on the WP.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I don't see the problem, even the announcers got it right. No HBP, R1 advances on the wild pitch, Charlie M gets a runner at second and still finds a way to get ejected. What a marooon.

This is correct. I had almost the exact thing last weekend. With R2, I thought a low pitch grazed the batter, called Time as the ball went to the backstop. It rebounded back to F2, but R2 had already reached 3rd, so there was no possible play. Both the batter and F2 said that the ball didn't hit the batter, so I reversed the HBP and left R2 at 3rd, much to the displeasure of F2.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Saw something happen today in an MLB game that raised a question in my mind:

Braves/Phillies: With a runner at first base, a Phillies batter may or may not have gotten grazed by a pitch. The ball got away to the screen, and the runner at 1st went to 2nd while the home plate ump told the batter to go to first on the hit by pitch. After Bobby Cox questioned the call, all four umpires gathered, and it was determined that it did not hit him. The batter was brought back to home plate to continue the at bat.

Meanwhile, the runner stayed at 2B. Now, ultimately, he deserved 2B because the ball got by the catcher to the screen, and the Braves had no play on him. But, I got to thinking about something: When the umpire called the hit by pitch, did he not create a dead ball? In other words, would this not be similar to the old inadvertent whistle in football where he killed the ball by calling the hit by pitch?

For all those who did not see the game, here is a link to the incident (including the subsequent ejection)
Charlie Manuel Ejected on an overturned HBP