Was I being an OOO?
 

District quarterfinals between fourth an fifth seeds, FED rules. Batter comes up to the plate with a bat with a noticeable rattle inside. Something inside the bat was sliding from the handles to the top of the barrel. I don't allow him to use it.

OOO?

TwoBits:

It doesn't sound like you were being overly OOO. BUT, it does sound like there is more to your question than you are telling us. Inquiring minds want to know more.

MTD, Sr.

I don't see anything wrong with it, just surprised you could hear it. Must have been an awful loud rattle.

Didn't you guys check the bats before the game? ;)

Thanks
David

Did not notice a rattle during bat inspection, but to be honest I did not handle each bat and inspected some of them while they were hanging in the bat rack.

This was later in the game, so I'm pretty sure the batter had used this bat once before, making me look a little foolish that I was disallowing a bat that had been used in that game already. I did tell the offensive coach that it was possible the rattle began after the last at-bat, but he corrected me in saying that the bat has rattled most of the year and, of course, "We have been using that bat all year!"

David, it was very loud. The batter came up kind of twirling his bat, and I could here whatever it was sliding and rattling back and forth very clearly.

Sounds reasonable to me TwoBits. The bat is not is proper condition to be used any longer. This rattle is a potential safety risk in my book.

-Josh

my .02
 

based on your opinion that it was a loud rattle, I think that it sounds reasonable to exclude the bat.....

if the end cap has not come off or been pulled off and there is an aduible rattle inside then something has broken off or has become loose and may be a structural failure.......

NOT OOO in my opinion......

Did you learn from this?

That FED should leave it up to the coach to verify that all equipment is legal (like college ball) and not have the umpire check the equipment?

-Josh

Here is my question

Did you get an out?

If you told the player he cannot use the bat, then by definition the bat is illegal and according to FED rules when a batter enters the box with an illegal bat we get an out.

Pete Booth

No. Noticed the rattle before getting into the batter's box on this particular at-bat, so this was the first time I told him that I wouldn't allow it.

I don't check every helmet and every set of shoulder pads in a football game. Why does NF want us to check every bat? It's on the coaches in every other sport. The reason I won't do it in my area is because nobody else does it and I'm not willing to be the "gumdrop" that goes around digging for boogers. Don't give me a sob and a song about liability. Why make the coach mad before you ever make your first call? NF needs to get us out of the uniform and equipment policing business. You'd think that they would have already because they know we don't do it. At least not where I'm from.

[QUOTE=billken;677521]

First off I agree 110% that we as officials should not check "bats / hats",

IMO, the Reason NF wants us to check them is to make certain all are using the same bat specs meaning -3. They do not want some 6'6'' strong player weighing 200 or more pounds coming to the plate with a -5 or greater bat.

Yes that should be on the coaches but NF most likely doesn't trust the coaches.

Pete Booth

Absolutely not one umpire working HS baseball in the San Diego area, which contains approximately 90 high schools, checks bats or helmets before the game. In fact we spend as little time as possible in the dugout (just long enough to fill out pay vouchers). We don't walk the field before games either. We arrive at the prescribed time, have a plate meeting that is short, sweet, and to the point, then we play Fedlandia baseball. We ain't no "gumdrops" here either!:cool:

Does your governing body tell you that you must check the equipment prior to the game or have they given you direction not to check it? In Iowa, for instance, we've been told we must. I personally don't pick up the bats and thoroughly examine each one. I turn it to see if there are any cracks, dents, etc and to make sure there is the proper certification affixed. Some teams have 10 bats, I don't have time to go over them with a fine tooth comb.

-Josh

To my knowledge, the governing body here, the San Diego Section of the CIF, has never mandated it or made it a point of emphasis.

I have been saying this for years. Finally the NCAA got smart..... how long will it take the FED to wake up and put the onus on the coaches and the schools?

That would be ideal, but lesson to be learned is if one is going to inspect equipment, to actually pick it up.

Even picking it up, it's possible to not hear a rattling sound.

I check bats and lids because we're expected to, but it's a quick check, not one with a fine tooth comb.

I disagree

-Josh

I fail to see what a rattling sound inside the bat has to do with safety. If it has BESR on it, and no dents or sign of tampering externally then what is justification for not allowing?

It is possible. That isn't the reason I posed the question.

If I have to be so blunt, "How the **** can you inspect a bat while it's in the rack?" If he done what he (as dictated by the powers that be) had done that to which he was supposed, this MAY have been avoided.

Depends how high the bat rack sits. If I can spin the bat and check for dents, etc. and see the BESR label, I may not remove it from the rack.

I toss at least 2 dozen helmets a season, though. Big cracks. I wonder if other umpires check and they just put them back in the bag after -- or the umpires don't check.

Just curious: which provision of the bat rule does a rattle violate?

I'm the OPer, and that is actually something I'm questioning myself on. The only thing that I could find that may be used is part of 1-3-5:
No foreign substance may be inserted into the bat.
I know that rule was put in place to prevent corking wooden bats and adding rubber balls to old aluminum bats. I'm sure the rattling culprit was not placed there intentionally, but I don't see intent as part of the rule.

Enough discussion on this thread to post my post-game follow up: After the game "Dad" caught me in the parking lot and politely asked about my ruling. After explaining what I told the coach, he told me that what they discovered (whoever "they" are) was that a screw had come loose inside the handle. That screw had something to do with keeping the bat from vibrating when hitting the ball. I told him that sounded like it could be a weakness in the bat since a screw is obviously meant to hold something together, and now it is no longer doing so.

1-5-6

Perfect. Thanks!

what does OOO mean?

Overly Officious Official.

Whew. I wondered,:eek: Thanks, SandiegoSteve. :D

Overly Officious Oaf

Checking equipment
 

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I pick up the helmets and look for cracks, missing padding or alterations.
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I Check the F2 mask for missing/loose parts.
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During my officiating career I have officiated five high school sports as a licensed official. I have always followed the check off rules for equipment. Although I will admit to having slipped up and forgot to when we were running late a time or two.
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I have officiated “select” teams in four sports and have been involved in two lawsuits because of player injuries.
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Every year in High School baseball/softball I find illegal/damaged equipment. In the last 20 years I have found altered equipment twice in non-high school sports.
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This year I found more than a dozen bats and 7 or 8 helmets and 2 F2 masks that were non-playable for baseball or softball.
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Something none of us want to be perceived as.

Welcome to the board, Mary Ellen!

ty! :d

I have tried to throw away bad helmets but coaches complain and say they are for batting practice. :mad: Anyway they can come to the plate with anything tey want anyhow so much for checking! :o

I don't throw them away, I throw them out of the game.

And why would you let them come to the plate with anything they want?

Final followup:

The team in the OP made it to the district championship, and I had the plate. I didn't see (or hear) the bat then entire game. The head coach did half-jokingly say as I walked in to his team to make sure everybody was using legal equipment. I just smiled as I walked in....let him get in his little dig until it was time to get down to business. They lost 8-5.