This happened the other day on a dropped third strike with first base open. The ball caromed up the 1st base line and struck the runner on his way to first. What is the ruling?

F2 should have caught the ball. Live ball, play on (unless B-R intentionally interferes with the lose ball).

Roger Greene

Maybe,
 

Roger:

What seems like the most basic answer (the one you have given) is not "exactly" true.

There seems to be a major disagreement between the two most significant "authoritive" sources.

Jaksa/Roder and Jim Evans "seem" to disagree on this issue.

Where you (and I) come from is that the defense should not be protected after they screw up.

There is a definite group that says "even an inadvertant" kick, which happens after a couple of steps out of the box, is deemed to be interferring with the play.

If the kick does not occur at the "plate area" there is now documentation that it is indeed interference and the Batter Runner should be called out.

While I see the play as you it does not mean that there are not conflicting viewpoints.

Tee,

That's interesting. Wich one indicates inteference and do they give a play?

Roger Greene

This is not a batted ball. F2 misplayed the pitch. Why should B/R be penalized for a defensive goof?

Bob

Roger
 

J/R says that the kick is inadvertant (unless the umpire deems it intentional) and Evans contends that this is "not" a scramble/unscramble play and if the batter has clearly passed the left handed batter's box and the ball is kicked it is intentional (no matter the intent).

Evans continues that the offense and defense BOTH screwed up . . . therefore rewarding the proper team is NOT considered.

Evans contends that interference can occur without obvious intent.

take the out
 

Take the out, J/R is right on this one the B/R can avoid the ball as he establishes his basepath to first base, the onus is on him to avoid the ball and the player trying to make a play on it, the B/R had to know F-2 dropped the ball or he would not be running, right, now you want to protect him
for contacting the ball as he is trying to get to first.
OUT, next batter please!

mac

Because 7.09(a) doesn't contain the word "intent".

(Just pointing it out -- not saying that I disagree with your premise.)

Tee,
I guess I can see Evan's logic. If the contact with the ball is in the plate area, the batter probably wouldn't have had enough time/space to avoid the ball rebounding off F2. However, if the ball is up the line some distance, he should have the opportunity to avoid the contact; and as Bob stated 7.09(a) doesn't mention intent.

I prefer the J/R interpertation though. It is consistant with other thrown balls contacting a runner.

Thanks,
Roger Greene

Re: take the out
 

The way the original post is worded, the ball hit the B/R from behind. How is he supposed to avoid a ball hitting him from behind? Run backwards?

Bob

<i> Originally posted by blscots6 </i>

<b> This happened the other day on a dropped third strike with first base open. The ball caromed up the 1st base line and struck the runner on his way to first. What is the ruling? </b>

As you can tell from the responses, for the most part this is nothing, but there could be a debate depending upon which Authoritative source one is reading. For the most part this is a simple play but nothing CONCRETE in OBR.

However, in HS played by FED rules, your particular thread is <i> Spelled out </i> in their case book.

FED Case Play 2.21.1(c)

With 2 outs, B1 strikes out, but F2 drops the ball, which rebounds into B1's path. As B1 begins running to first, B1 accidentally kicks the ball.

<b> Ruling: </b> B1 is NOT guilty of interference and the ball remains alive, unless in the umpire's judgement B1 INTENTIONALLY kicked the ball.

Under all 3 major rule books, your play is nothing, however, in OBR there could be a case (as Tee points out) to rule otherwise. Not so in FED.

Pete Booth

MAC writes: <b>"Take the out, J/R is right on this one..."</b>

Uh....Mac? It was Evans who advocated the out, not J/R.

This happened at the high school level, so there is nothing to call. Thanks for clearing this up. The umpires got it right.

Confused???

You said:"The ball caromed up the 1st base line and struck the runner on his way to first."

Everyone here seems to be talking about the runner striking the ball. What really happened?

What about ball 4 that gets away from F2 and contacts the batter in these various stages of running to 1B? Do the same interpretive conflicts apply?

<i> Originally posted by greymule </i>

<b> What about ball 4 that gets away from F2 and contacts the batter in these various stages of running to 1B? Do the same interpretive conflicts apply? </b>

IMO you are comparing Apples to Oranges. On ball 4, B1 becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out. In the example given although B1 became a runner on a dropped thrid strike he /she is not entitiled to first base without liability. Different scenarios.

It's a real stretch but if there were other runners on base, B1 although entitiled to first base without liability to be put out cannot interfere with F2's ability to make a play on another runner, but B1 would have to do something extreme.

Pete Booth

the runner didn't intentionally strike the ball, the ball hit him.

Apples to oranges in one sense. Yes, on ball 4, B1 is awarded 1B without liability to be put out, but the ball is still live, and I would think some of the same principles would apply.

There seem to be endless variations on B1 interfering with a pitch that gets away. How about these two:

1. In attempting to scoop ball 4 in the dirt, F2 knocks the ball in the air 15 feet down the 1B line. B1 takes off for first, and the ball hits his heel and (a) goes into the dugout, or (b) bounces away such that he reaches 2B.

2. R1 on 3B. Ball 4 is in the dirt and bounces up in front of home plate as B1 starts to run to 1B. B1 knocks the ball far enough away from F2 for R1 to score.

I'm surprised these plays have never happened to me. What are the correct calls? Would they be different if strike 3 instead of ball 4?

"the runner didn't intentionally strike the ball, the ball hit him"

Play ON..

I'd be inclined to just call the ball dead -- advance BR and any forced runners; return others.

If another runner was advancing and I thought F2 had a play, then I'd be more likely (read: HTBT) to call interference. The walk entitles BR to advance w/o being "put out" but he still must advance legally and can be "declared out".